How Reliable are Estes Igniters?

[mbeels]

Which size do you use for which motors?

I can say for sure that the Firewire Mini Initiator will fit into the nozzle of a C11.

 

[shreadvector]

Cluster - shmuster.

This will igniter your clusters:

https://estesrockets.com/product/002240-pro-series-ii-launch-controller/

https://estesrockets.com/wp-content/uploads/Instructions/002240_PSII_CONTROLLER.pdf

 

[ECayemberg]

How many motors in the clusters ?

What about large clusters ( 10 - 15 motors ) ?

Dave F.

I can't speak for Paul...though I do need to fly some clusters with him again SOON... but I used to use Q2G2 longs for 12 motor BP clusters. Since they're no longer available, I've gone to using plain ematches. Most recently used at LDRS to light a dozen 24mm motors on the ground. They work!

I may have to try those BP motor starters too!

 

[SPRock]

We've gone to dipping ours in pyrogen, they work very well then. But out of the box new ones with the white/grey stuff don't have a great record for us. Had two fail in a cluster of two A's, as well as one out of two D's, that flight didn't end too well. Put two dipped ones in the motors, no problem. We've used DIY wire-wrap dipped igniters for fireworks fuses and composite motors with great success as well.

 

[OC-Patrick]

Helped my son with a school science experiment with rockets. Launched 20 times with the Estes starters - 100% success rate. A first for me!

 

[Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech]

Working on what, exactly? The answer will differ depending on what you're trying to light. Used as intended - Estes BP motors, my personal experience with the new "starters" is ~75%. With the older ones (black tips), it's probably more like 90%.

When installed correctly and fired by a good battery you should get better than 95% success. The new gray ones are less forgiving than the older black type. You MUST have the head of the igniter touching the propellant with the new ones.

I re-dip the new white tipped ones. I just have not found them to be as reliable.

Ok Thanks! Yes I see that if used right they're pretty reliable I guess. Also I see why dipping is good, to give it that extra flame

 

[Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech]

You should stick with your homemade igniters proven never to fail! Why would you switch to something you have serious doubts about? OTOH, new rocketeers will likely have better results using Estes igniters(starters) than something they cobble together.

Yes You guys are right, I should stick to the igniter I'm most comfortable with and had the most success with. Those homemade e-matches are awesome and I based mine off of TKOR video actually

 

[Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech]

Ok Thanks everyone for your replies! So In conclusion it seems like everyone had different experiences with them, though most of them were quite positive. It seems to conclude to how to properly setup the igniter

 

[John Taylor]

Ok Thanks! Yes I see that if used right they're pretty reliable I guess. Also I see why dipping is good, to give it that extra flame

Right on! I have had 100% success after dipping them. And aK love the extra flame!

 

[dpower]

Which size do you use for which motors?

Ive been using the regular size for all 18mm/24mm Motors. They’re a bit tight for B6/C6 nozzles, so I’ll get some small ones next time for those.

How many motors in the clusters ?

What about large clusters ( 10 - 15 motors ) ?

Dave F.

About 8 flights on my 5 motor 1:100 SV, 5 flights On my 7 motor HydraVII, and a few smaller clusters.

 

[cwbullet]

It has to make you laugh. I launched last weekend and I forgot to pull the dipped igniters out of my box so all I had were the white ones. I had a perfect 3 of 3 ignitions. No failures. I have never had that luck with the white ones.

 

[byoungblood]

My personal experience has been somewhere between 75 and 99 percent. I can think of maybe one or two times where the igniter lit, but the motor did not, probably because I did not get the tip completely against the propellant. I recall that motors with smaller nozzles seem to be a little more finicky, likely because there is less room for both the plug and igniter. 24mm motors don't seem to pose a problem.

 

[DeltaVee]

Personal experience with the newer starters (igniters, dammitol!) is pretty good actually. In three years I've had maybe 3 not successfully light an Estes black powder motor. That includes a 3-engine scrambler and two twin-engine Estes K21 Gemini Titan. I wouldn't really put the reliability at 99% 90-95% perhaps.

I think it may come down to installation technique...
1) I put the engine, nozzle up on a table....

2) insert the stahteh (Boston accent), and place my index finger on the two ends as if I was going to push just hard enough as if to run the wires into my fingertip... (the ends of both wires are held in place by my fingertip ensuring the force runs down the wires into the head of the igniter which is now against the BP grain - see photo)
3) with my other hand, insert the plug...

Just don't use so much force that the wires bend...


I think this is how you get maximum reliability w/o the need to dip them.

 

[Nytrunner]

I think this is how you get maximum reliability w/o the need to dip them

That's the truth, the new ones are just less forgiving of slop during installation

 

[DeltaVee]

That's the truth, the new ones are just less forgiving of slop during installation

Agreed... btw I just checked out your clubs' web page. You have an amazing field at your disposal there!

 

[Nytrunner]

Agreed... btw I just checked out your clubs' web page. You have an amazing field at your disposal there!

Both of the fields are great, we've managed to build a good relationship with the landowner this year*!..Theyre even better when it isn't raining..... and when the cloud ceiling isn't 2500'

*said he can't even tell we've been there other than different treadmarks on the roads

 

[Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech]

It has to make you laugh. I launched last weekend and I forgot to pull the dipped igniters out of my box so all I had were the white ones. I had a perfect 3 of 3 ignitions. No failures. I have never had that luck with the white ones.

No way! And yes it made me laugh

 

[thaiguyry]

The igniters very reliable if you have the right voltage igniting them. The 9v they supply you with in their launch system is terrible. Its not enough volts and it burns too slow. We built a system that has a lipo battery attached 11.5 volts and we've launched 50+ rockets lately with 100% success rate and the lipo battery says its dropped 0.01 volts. Amazing!!

 

[SolarYellow]

I just did a bunch of launches on Sunday. Used all the clear/white dipped ignitors, saving the "better" grey ones for later. A, B, C and D motors. Zero failures, except when the godson let the clips touch. Adjusted them to not touch and tried again, success. FWIW, we're using the standard Estes red plastic launcher with 4 Duracell AA batteries. The original rod "mysteriously" got bent, so we bought a 1/8x4' piece of steel rod at Lowe's.

I did use the back (thicker) side of a SAK blade to very gently spread the wires a little bit (controlled and very consistent amount) where they get close before inserting them, just to make sure they didn't touch.

 

[ep29030]

According to BATF, the old Solar igniters were the choice of domestic IED makers: reliable, easy to ignite, easy to obtain. But that was before the newer gray igniters came along.

 

[cwbullet]

According to BATF, the old Solar igniters were the choice of domestic IED makers: reliable, easy to ignite, easy to obtain. But that was before the newer gray igniters came along.

The black igniters were often used for that purpose.

 

[ep29030]

The black igniters were often used for that purpose.

"When it absolutely has to detonate".

Remind me to tell you about the two visits I got from FBI agents a couple of years ago, questioning me, because somebody bought a PET Timer I sold on eBay and decided to use it to make an IED that injured someone.

 

[SolarYellow]

The guy who shot Shinzo Abe used homemade propellant and an electrical current ignitor. I guessed that latter fact just from watching the video at the time, but it has since been reported to be accurate. Don't know whether he used a COTS ignitor or wound his own nichrome, old-school.

 

[Spitfire222]

The igniters very reliable if you have the right voltage igniting them. The 9v they supply you with in their launch system is terrible. Its not enough volts and it burns too slow. We built a system that has a lipo battery attached 11.5 volts and we've launched 50+ rockets lately with 100% success rate and the lipo battery says its dropped 0.01 volts. Amazing!!

Agreed 100%. Ever since becoming a BAR, I've been using the Pro Series launcher with a 3S LiPo. I've only gotten maybe 2-3 failures, that I chalk up to user error.

To be fair, there's something to be said that you should be able to achieve that same success with the regular 9V launcher. But I figured that instead of messing with ignitor dipping and other mods to make them more effective, it was easier for me to upgrade the launcher and the power it supplies.

 

[cwbullet]

I concur. I think the right batteries, the right launch system, and technique lead to success with Estes igniters. Personally, I have had good success with all of the Estes variants, but I prefer something with a little more burn time.

 

[bjphoenix]

The guy who shot Shinzo Abe used homemade propellant and an electrical current ignitor. I guessed that latter fact just from watching the video at the time, but it has since been reported to be accurate. Don't know whether he used a COTS ignitor or wound his own nichrome, old-school.

Asking from my ignorance- what is the fireworks industry like in Japan? It seems that more electrical starters might be used for fireworks than for any other purpose.

 

[mh9162013]

The igniters very reliable if you have the right voltage igniting them. The 9v they supply you with in their launch system is terrible. Its not enough volts and it burns too slow. We built a system that has a lipo battery attached 11.5 volts and we've launched 50+ rockets lately with 100% success rate and the lipo battery says its dropped 0.01 volts. Amazing!!

It's not about voltage, it's about current. 6 volts is more than enough as long as the batteries can supply sufficient current. The reason why the 9V battery doesn't work well in some of the launch controllers is because it's a notoriously bad battery for high current applications.

So your lithium based battery worked better most likely because it could supply more current more quickly, not because it had a higher voltage. A 2S LiPo of sufficient current capacity would probably have performance just as well as your 3S LiPo.

 

[Voyhager3]

I’ve found they have pretty good reliability, no matter the tip it has. But, I do the problem where the igniter shorts itself out right before the tip when you put the nozzle plug in. I’ve lost a-many igniters to that.

 

[lakeroadster]

Back in the 60's and 70's we would make our own igniters using the twist tie from bread wrappers. Just peel off the paper from the wire and the wire made any excellent ignitor. Since it was a thicker gauge than the Estes igniters, our car battery powered Estes controller would make the twist tie glow red hot for an extended period of time. Secured into the motor with a ball of wadding and some masking tape.

Whatever it takes....

 

[cwbullet]

The guy who shot Shinzo Abe used homemade propellant and an electrical current ignitor. I guessed that latter fact just from watching the video at the time, but it has since been reported to be accurate. Don't know whether he used a COTS ignitor or wound his own nichrome, old-school.

I am pretty sure that was not a COT igniter. Then again, you use what you got.