Out where you are on L.I., I have a buddy that flys often in the area and builds research motors. That said, he doesnt do sugar motors and isnt on this forum but there is a Long Island Rocketry group on FB. That hobby lobby in that area does carry estes rocket supplies and will be your cheapest local supply. For composite motors, order the non-hazmat ones. There are tons of non-hazmat choices and even vendors like Flightsketch that dont charge shipping even with small orders (35$). Making my own propellant isnt something that interests me, and I didnt really see how it was going to save me any money with the initial fixed cost investment (non-sugar propellant).
How powerful are sugar rockets?
- Thread starter UnityLover
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
UnityLover
Active Member
I know its multi use, but im planning to launch at a park near me
Duplicate thread made in mid-power - merged.
UnityLover
Active Member
that one was a mistake on my part
UnityLover
Active Member
NateB
Well-Known Member
Yes. The last number, the 6 in your link, represents the length of the delay in seconds. After the delay burns with a smoke trail, there is a small charge of BP to pop the nosecone off and push a parachute or streamer out.
UnityLover
Active Member
ok, got it
What sort of altitude limit might you have for successful recovery?
Once you get the kit and it all makes sense, you may want to download Open Rocket. It's a free rocket simulation program that will let you model the rocket, with recovery system, motor and delay times. You can even enter details like actual weight, launch rod length and wind speed at the park to simulate the complete flight up and down.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2012
- Messages
- 6,350
- Reaction score
- 5,563
You ever seen a 4 year-old jacked up on sugar? Strong stuff, it is...
UnityLover
Active Member
The "UP TO <insert random number here> FEET" thing on the box says 550 feet on its strongest supported motor is the maximum height. My limit is high enough that wind wont carry the rocket with its parachute into a tree or a lake or too far away. Ill get open rocket, it seems useful
UnityLover
Active Member
So I kinda got carried away and made this monstrosity in open rocket. No parachute system, just flies and dives.
You can attach your ORK files right here. Also it is helpful to include a screenshot of the design so those that don’t use OpenRocket (or those on mobile, like me at the moment) can see what it looks like.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2011
- Messages
- 7,565
- Reaction score
- 1,162
Altho it may seem like the learning curve is steep, just the very beginnings of LowPower Rocketry translate into lessons you will carry forward in the rest of your hobby in rocketry. there are a bazilion offshoots of the basics, from unconventional rockets ( oddrocs) to competition (like parachute duration, altitude, speed, etc.) that tasks the best of us. I have seen and know quite a few get the bug, climb the cert levels within a year and then drop out. I also know quite a few that only fly low power and they've done it for decades. It's your jam. you may have noticed we all jealously safegard the record we have established within the hobby as not bring these crazed pyromaniacs (ignore my handle) that create wreckage snd mayhem amongst the general populace. This is key to retaining the flying spaces we have available to us as population pressure and the resulting housing tracts eat up formerly open spaces. There literally are no stupid questions on TRF. If you don't know, how would you find out?We are all here for you to welcome you to this awesome sport/hobby. Don't be a stranger and above all, let no one discourage you from persuing your dreams. They will in time, merge with reality and gradually, you will branch out based on the experience you've gained. Learn the basics first. Make your mistakes like we all have and learn from those. Not every rocket will recover perfectly. Don't take it or make it personal. The rocket gods require sacrifices on occasion, and no one is immune. Take your time, there is no limit or pressure to perform perfectly out the gate. Be safe. and prepare to be broke the rest of your life. Marry well, as your significant other will shoulder the household bills while you sand and glue in the corner, next to the dreaded 'build pile'. Winning the lottery will only bring ruin, do not attempt this at home. Straight smoke and good chutes. We be here for ya!
UnityLover
Active Member
Center of gravity (CG) should be ahead of center of pressure (CP) by at least 1 caliber (the width of the body tube). Otherwise you’ll have stability problems.
@UnityLover, add a parachute, and see how that changes your CG. Good first run!
Agreed, well done indeed.
I should have provided some encouragement but I was trying to type in the Wendy’s drive-thru. Shame on me!
BDB
Absent Minded Professor
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,556
- Reaction score
- 938
I like the design. Lengthening the body tube will also move the CG forward.
too much pressure in those drive-thru's! I always go inside.UnityLover
Active Member
Sir this is a rocket forum.
(if ykyk)
UnityLover
Active Member
is this slightly better?
Will look once I have my computer. Look for an update to this post.
UnityLover
Active Member
This thread got rerouted from helping me not make a pipe bomb to talking about wendys and OPENrocket
Nice job on getting the stability margins right. 2 calibers might make it weathercock (point itself into the wind while in flight), but most commercial kits have similar stability margins and will do this anyway. Just think carefully about flying in high winds and you'll be fine.
Typically for safe flight you'll want 30mph or more off the rod, and your chosen B6-4 does that easily. The delay is appropriate too, a hair longer than optimal but as close as you'll get with commercially available motors.
Now all that's left is to make a few modifications so the rocket can be built with available components.
Take a look at some of the presets for body tubes, noses, and the like, and select ones that are available. You might be able to create them from raw materials if you consider yourself a skilled craftsman, but otherwise it's just easier to buy and modify if needed (body tubes can be cut to length, for example, and parachutes can be constructed from readily available materials like sheets of thin fabric or plastic).
Also be sure to install a launch lug and construct a motor mount (I can detail this in a subsequent post if desired, or you can play around with it if you prefer).
If you've still got good stability margins and rod exit speeds after all this, you're ready to start building, which is another challenge unto itself. You'll need to select an appropriate glue, install all parts correctly and with a degree of precision, then select and apply a color scheme that allows it to be seen against the sky, the ground, or a tree in which it will inevitably land.
If you do all of that, you'll have a rocket that is almost certain to be cleared for flight and stands a good chance of intact recovery.
If that sounds like a lot, it kind of is, but it also presents a mountain of learning opportunities with minimal risk of explosive injury. Now you see why most of us focus on designing and building airframes and not motors!
Your kit will serve you well, but I'd encourage you to take what you learned from it and apply it to your scratch build when you feel ready. Very little is more rewarding than seeing your own design work.
Last edited:
Just for fun, I did a little redesign work on your rocket. Just basically did what I outlined, kept it as close as I could to the original using off-the-shelf components. Body tube and nose from SEMROC (tube cut to your specified length, this is a pretty standard practice); motor mount tube, motor block, parachute, and launch lug from Estes; and custom centering rings, which you can have made for you in a few places, or you can make yourself. I kept your fin design but changed them to balsa instead of cardboard, which is lighter, stronger, and more common for constructing model rocket fins.
You'll notice that the stability margin is radically different because of changes in CG and CP. Depending on installed motor, it ranges from 1.1 to 1.58 calibers, which is actually just about perfect.
I also simulated its performance on every single-use 18mm motor on the market, selecting the ones with the closest-to-ideal delay times. 6 fins make for a draggy rocket that'll stay under 700 ft on D motors, but it's light enough to get off the pad and recover safely on a 1/2A.
Whether or not you move forward with this design is completely up to you, I just wanted to do this as a fun exercise and I thought you might benefit from my sharing it.
Edit: proposed color scheme uploaded in both .ork file and a new screenshot image
You'll notice that the stability margin is radically different because of changes in CG and CP. Depending on installed motor, it ranges from 1.1 to 1.58 calibers, which is actually just about perfect.
I also simulated its performance on every single-use 18mm motor on the market, selecting the ones with the closest-to-ideal delay times. 6 fins make for a draggy rocket that'll stay under 700 ft on D motors, but it's light enough to get off the pad and recover safely on a 1/2A.
Whether or not you move forward with this design is completely up to you, I just wanted to do this as a fun exercise and I thought you might benefit from my sharing it.
Edit: proposed color scheme uploaded in both .ork file and a new screenshot image
Attachments
Last edited:
UnityLover
Active Member
thats cool, when I get access to my PC i can check that out. What do 3D printers use? my library has one
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2022
- Messages
- 1,751
- Reaction score
- 1,764
I don't know if someone has already said this, but you can buy in bulk, the cardboard engine casings in 18mm and 24mm that Estes uses in their engines. Load those up with your favorite choice of propellant, and (carefully) drill your nozzle. Then you can fly those in any standard rocket as long as the fins can stay attached. I have not done this, and I don't recommend it, but... just saying.
Williamhimka
Well-Known Member
Listen, we all start somewhere.
Let’s encourage here.
This forum is to help, educate, and have fun.
Yes, i understand things may stick out to the “trained eye” that may not be the best idea in your opinion and I encourage letting them know the Pros and cons or ups and downs of the idea that they want to pursue, but a situation like this should never be handled in that manner.
I’m very disappointed to see a comment like that.
Not trying to sound like that adult that tries to control everything but you get the point I’m trying to make here. That’s one way NOT to handle a situation like this.
William
