How is the US doing on its CO2 emission reduction goals

[cwbullet]

And "we" are supposed to be making 'the example' for others to follow..

So we should impoverish our selves and expend all the wealth we have for a world that is unable or unwilling to do it themselves? It is too expensive for the masses. What we are going to do is make it so the masses in the US have to buy used cars or if we mandate it, the less well off will have to move outside areas that mandate electrics.

I see the whole thing as hypocritical. I don't get how the elite jet around the globe but celebrate how they drive an electric car. If you are going to live the life, live it as a whole and not just when it is convenient. I drive a hybrid and might buy an electric, but I personally do not thing we should force our population to accept it. You have to make the technology the right way to go and affordable.

We are handcuffing the Western economies. This will not end well.

 

[Titan II]

And "we" are supposed to be making 'the example' for others to follow..

Who are we? Canada? The USA? That is a joke.

 

[Funkworks]

... If you are going to live the life, live it as a whole and not just when it is convenient...

Well, if you asked me, living the life would be driving EVs, eVTOLs, and hydrogen jets. And maybe one of those solar boats with unlimited range. Any way I look at it, there's nothing hypocritical about running an electric motor. Many assume it's only about global this and that but not really. It's also much more fun.

 

[dr wogz]

holley crap, sorry..

just proving the 'do as I say, not as I do' mantra..

if we adopt & use cleaner energies & machines, others will likely follow suit. If you want to continue the coal & gas use (and drive a poorly maintained 70's Cadillac), you can expect others to then do the same..



so yeah, the "we" as in the G7.. develop & adopt & use these new cleaner methods if we insist others do the same... it's about chainging attitudes..

 

[cwbullet]

holley crap, sorry..

just proving the 'do as I say, not as I do' mantra..

if we adopt & use cleaner energies & machines, others will likely follow suit. If you want to continue the coal & gas use (and drive a poorly maintained 70's Cadillac), you can expect others to then do the same..



so yeah, the "we" as in the G7.. develop & adopt & use these new cleaner methods if we insist others do the same... it's about chainging attitudes..

I agree. The 'do as I say, not as I do' mantra is what bothers me. If the whole electric life and global warming concerns were really that big of a concern to these groups, their yachts would have sails and they would travel the country on horseback. No, they are more important than that. This is only for those that don't own a private jet.

During a period of my life, I provided health care for individual that had to travel for meetings around the globe and would travel on the plane with them. Often, it was myself, the dignitary, and an admin assistant on a jet alone. I always thought it was such a waste one money and fuel to travel like that.

I agree with the move to more electric but disagree with the means to make it happen. Make it affordable and the masses will come. Right now, it is not affordable for most.

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

So we should impoverish our selves and expend all the wealth we have for a world that is unable or unwilling to do it themselves? It is too expensive for the masses. What we are going to do is make it so the masses in the US have to buy used cars or if we mandate it, the less well off will have to move outside areas that mandate electrics.

I see the whole thing as hypocritical. I don't get how the elite jet around the globe but celebrate how they drive an electric car. If you are going to live the life, live it as a whole and not just when it is convenient. I drive a hybrid and might buy an electric, but I personally do not thing we should force our population to accept it. You have to make the technology the right way to go and affordable.

We are handcuffing the Western economies. This will not end well.

There is definitely plenty of hypocrisy to go around but buying an EV to be a customer and boost the market for the early technology is very helpful. I agree many that can afford the high end EVs likely pollute in other ways. It is still good they are being early adopters.

Personally I drive a hybrid and love it. If I could afford an EV, I would like to try it.

 

[Funkworks]

... Make it affordable and the masses will come. Right now, it is not affordable for most.

There are also not enough batteries for most. When there's a waiting list, it just doesn't make any economic sense to reduce prices. New techs have always gone to the highest bidder. All the car makers are presently investing heavily to boost battery production, exactly to make them more affordable. It just can't be done overnight.

So a piece of good news I posted a few days ago is that: "Tesla reduces Model 3 and Model Y prices, now starts under $37,000"

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/13/tes...co/2021/02/17/tesla-reduces-model-3-y-prices/

 

[cwbullet]

There are also not enough batteries for most. When there's a waiting list, it just doesn't make any economic sense to reduce prices. New techs have always gone to the highest bidder. All the car makers are presently investing heavily to boost battery production, exactly to make them more affordable. It just can't be done overnight.

So a piece of good news I posted a few days ago is that: "Tesla reduces Model 3 and Model Y prices, now starts under $37,000"

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/13/tes...co/2021/02/17/tesla-reduces-model-3-y-prices/

The price of the car is only part of the cost and it is subsidized. Many of us would also have to alter our homes to have a line put in to charge it. A coworker bought a new Mach-e Mustang and it cost him $1000 to put the charger in and nearly $9000 in modifications to the home to run the line. Sometimes it is not as a simple as just buying the car.

I have been research it and might have to do the same. I can't rely on local chargers because I am 30-45 minutes or 30-45 miles from the nearest charger.

You have to think through your purchase if you are going to do your part for CO2 lowering.

 

[dr wogz]

During a period of my life, I provided health care for individual that had to travel for meetings around the globe and would travel on the plane with them. Often, it was myself, the dignitary, and an admin assistant on a jet alone. I always thought it was such a waste one money and fuel to travel like that.

I know the pilot of a private plane (Challenger 600 series)
he would fly Rene Angelil (the hubby of Celin Dion) to Vegas just about every other week-end.. sometimes just him, sometimes he & a few friends.

He would also fly other "dignitaries" to Orlando for a girly shopping week-end..

the thing he was most amazed at, was the food Rene would bring aboard for the 5 hr flight.. Sushi, bagels, sandwiches, steaks, etc.... There was always a variety should you have a particular want.. He & crew ate well while holed up in a Vegas hotel waiting for the return flight.. (Nothing beats a rich people's left overs!)

 

[Adrian A]

The price of the car is only part of the cost and it is subsidized. Many of us would also have to alter our homes to have a line put in to charge it. A coworker bought a new Mach-e Mustang and it cost him $1000 to put the charger in and nearly $9000 in modifications to the home to run the line. Sometimes it is not as a simple as just buying the car.

I have been research it and might have to do the same. I can't rely on local chargers because I am 30-45 minutes or 30-45 miles from the nearest charger.

You have to think through your purchase if you are going to do your part for CO2 lowering.

I have been driving my Chevy Bolt EV for about a year and a half with the included charger plugged into an existing 120V outlet. (Zero additional infrastructure cost). I also never charge it away from home. There have been a few times when it didn't recharge fast enough to be able to use it for a few trips and I had to drive my ICE car instead. So last week I had an electrician put in a 30 Amp, 240V breaker into my garage subpanel and run the line across my garage to a new outlet. The cost for that was $1200. The level 2 charger I plugged into the new outlet was about $300 on Amazon. This increased my recharging power by 5.5x and it's plenty for me now. It also increased the value of my house slightly, so overall it was worth it for me. If it actually cost $10k would I have done it? No way.

 

[kuririn]

I have been driving my Chevy Bolt EV for about a year and a half with the included charger plugged into an existing 120V outlet. (Zero additional infrastructure cost). I also never charge it away from home. There have been a few times when it didn't recharge fast enough to be able to use it for a few trips and I had to drive my ICE car instead. So last week I had an electrician put in a 30 Amp, 220V breaker into my garage subpanel and run the line across my garage to a new outlet. The cost for that was $1200. The level 2 charger I plugged into the new outlet was about $300 on Amazon. This increased my recharging power by 5.5x and it's plenty for me now. It also increased the value of my house slightly, so overall it was worth it for me. If it actually cost $10k would I have done it? No way.

I have also read that Chevy dealerships had been subsidizing the cost of installing the home chargers. Not sure if they extended that or not.
https://insideevs.com/news/488289/c...ntial pain point in purchasing your first EV.

 

[Adrian A]

I have also read that Chevy dealerships had been subsidizing the cost of installing the home chargers. Not sure if they extended that or not.
https://insideevs.com/news/488289/c...ntial pain point in purchasing your first EV.

I wonder if they found it paid off for them. That promotion was just Jan-June last year.

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

You have to think through your purchase if you are going to do your part for CO2 lowering.

I doubt an EV at present is an immediate benefit for net emissions, when you factor in everything. (Maybe depending where you live.) If you purchase one, you become an “investor” in those companies by being an early customer. Not only are you giving them money, you provide value feedback for future cars/charging stations etc, and if you like the car, you likely will be good advertising.

 

[aerostadt]

Americans are voting for non-CO2 energy with their dollars. Electric cars need to solve the battery problem and the car cost problem. Selling more cars can bring the cost per unit down. Solving the battery problem is much harder. Re-charging a car on trips more than 300 miles is a problem, because it takes about 10 hours. Plus, the batteries need replacing after awhile and the cost is very high. Then utilities will need to have nuclear power plants, because wind and solar cannot store power, but environmentalists have regulated new nuclear plants out of existence. Fusion power is far, far away. Solve the problems first and the dollars will follow.

 

[kuririn]

I wonder if they found it paid off for them. That promotion was just Jan-June last year.

Apparently it was extended. Now covers 2023 Bolt EV and EUV.
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/living-electric/home-charging-installation

 

[Funkworks]

The price of the car is only part of the cost and it is subsidized. Many of us would also have to alter our homes to have a line put in to charge it. A coworker bought a new Mach-e Mustang and it cost him $1000 to put the charger in and nearly $9000 in modifications to the home to run the line. Sometimes it is not as a simple as just buying the car.

I have been research it and might have to do the same. I can't rely on local chargers because I am 30-45 minutes or 30-45 miles from the nearest charger.

You have to think through your purchase if you are going to do your part for CO2 lowering.

Subsidies are not for all cars, they are temporary, and they are due to cars being one of the biggest purchases one makes, so people hesitate. They are for those on the fence. As for charging networks, subsidies are largely a one-time investment that will last many decades. Ongoing maintenance will be much cheaper.

Home charging beats public charging anytime, but not all homes are the same of course. Setting it up is like any other home improvement. I think it should increase the value of a home, but I don't have numbers to show this right now. A good question I can look into.

I doubt an EV at present is an immediate benefit for net emissions, when you factor in everything. (Maybe depending where you live.) If you purchase one, you become an “investor” in those companies by being an early customer. Not only are you giving them money, you provide value feedback for future cars/charging stations etc, and if you like the car, you likely will be good advertising.

I have found many reports showing they are a benefit for net emissions, and none saying the opposite. I can pull some out, but I won't play this game where people say it's biased just because I'm the one who found it.

Solving the battery problem is much harder. Re-charging a car on trips more than 300 miles is a problem, because it takes about 10 hours. Plus, the batteries need replacing after awhile and the cost is very high.

I'm wondering what "battery problem" you are referring to. Also realize that a 300 mile trip means a 5 hour drive, and very few people do this daily. A 200-300 mile range is all most people really need.

Batteries are either charged overnight, or in case of a road trip, in less than 30 minutes, which is less time than it takes to eat and take a whiz. Replacing batteries is not the norm. They are meant to follow the car to the junkyard and be recycled.

 

[speed]

Good for plants, not so good for humans.
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2436/co2-is-making-earth-greenerfor-now/

How much is too much?

 

[speed]

That’s going to be great for you, plant.

How much Co2 is too much? No one seems to be able to answer that question.

 

[speed]

Figure 2. Wildfire Extent in the United States, 1983–2021
View attachment 557299
This figure shows annual wildfire-burned area (in millions of acres) from 1983 to 2021. The two lines represent two different reporting systems though the Forest Service stopped collecting statistics (orange line) in 1997 and is not planning to update them, those statistics are shown here for comparison.
https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-wildfires

What about the fact that the USDA has cut back the amount of underbrush clearing and prescribed burns?

 

[speed]

As any procrastinator knows, this is what happens when you wait too long and then have to half-ass it at the last minute to try to sneak in under the deadline. Sometimes you pull it off, and sometimes it’s an ugly failure.

We’ve known what is happening for more than thirty years, everything is proceeding exactly as predicted, we haven’t done enough to prevent it, and now the deadline is here. Will we pull it off, or will it be an ugly failure. Looks like a fail to me, but who knows?

What about the global cooling scare in the 60's and 70,s? We were all going to die from freezing to death. What happened?

 

[Johnly]

Mixed in with the humor, there is some thought provoking content.

 

[KC3KNM]

Mixed in with the humor, there is some thought provoking content.

This is such a tired, useless argument.

81% of global emissions are from G20 countries. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the G20 was formed in '99 with 20 of the worlds strongest economies, no?

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/C... emissions reached,United States and the EU .
Instead, push the blame like everyone and consider it's somone else's problem. Much easier to ride your emotions than the reality... but everyone else is woke lmao. Keep blaming poor people, seems like an easy scapegoat.

 

[aerostadt]

I'm wondering what "battery problem" you are referring to. Also realize that a 300 mile trip means a 5 hour drive, and very few people do this daily. A 200-300 mile range is all most people really need.

Batteries are either charged overnight, or in case of a road trip, in less than 30 minutes, which is less time than it takes to eat and take a whiz. Replacing batteries is not the norm. They are meant to follow the car to the junkyard and be recycled.

To travel from my house to LA or San Franciso is about 12-hour trip or one day. Not far fetched at all and most people want this option. You mean charging on a road-trip takes only 30 minutes while if you are driving in-town you charge overnight? I knew someone that had a Prius and he said that it would cost 3,000 to replace the battery. He never went back to Prius or electric cars.

 

[cwbullet]

I'm wondering what "battery problem" you are referring to. Also realize that a 300 mile trip means a 5 hour drive, and very few people do this daily. A 200-300 mile range is all most people really need.

Batteries are either charged overnight, or in case of a road trip, in less than 30 minutes, which is less time than it takes to eat and take a whiz. Replacing batteries is not the norm. They are meant to follow the car to the junkyard and be recycled.

Most Americans travel at least 2-4 long vacation trips per year. I travel from GA to WV 4 times a year and 4 hours to our rocket launches monthly. I am typical. This distance is not sufficient and it is too expensive to buy two cars.

I guess I would have to rent a gas powered car if I buy an electric.

 

[Johnly]

This is such a tired, useless argument.

81% of global emissions are from G20 countries. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the G20 was formed in '99 with 20 of the worlds strongest economies, no?

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/C... emissions reached,United States and the EU .
Instead, push the blame like everyone and consider it's somone else's problem. Much easier to ride your emotions than the reality... but everyone else is woke lmao. Keep blaming poor people, seems like an easy scapegoat.

The chart linked to the shows the emission per inhabitant, rather than by country. Both are viable representations of the data depending on the point you're trying to make. It also doesn't address the CO2 emissions and overall emissions trends in China and India, where population growth and emissions per person are increasing faster than the other members of the G20 driven by their increasing industrialization.

The salient point of the video is that people in China and India are striving for a better quality of life and that will be energy intensive, causing CO2 emissions amongst other pollutants. Given that, developing less polluting energy sources for developing countries would be a prudent path forward while the other members of the G20 flatten and reduce their emissions.

Just remember there are, Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

 

[Tyeeking]

Most Americans travel at least 2-4 long vacation trips per year. I travel from GA to WV 4 times a year and 4 hours to our rocket launches monthly. I am typical. This distance is not sufficient and it is too expensive to buy two cars.

I guess I would have to rent a gas powered car if I buy an electric.

Much like you I take several road trips per year (6-10 depending on the year). Some are quite long. The convenience of not having to research where to refuel as well as not spending long periods of time doing so is very important to me.

In addition like a lot of people I now live in a condo with no ability for onsite charging. Our association researched having chargers installed but the price to do so was astronomical and so won’t be happening. Sometimes aspirational hits practical like a brick wall.

 

[Funkworks]

How much Co2 is too much? No one seems to be able to answer that question.

I have answered that a few times on TRF already. I can come back later.

To travel from my house to LA or San Franciso is about 12-hour trip or one day. Not far fetched at all and most people want this option. You mean charging on a road-trip takes only 30 minutes while if you are driving in-town you charge overnight? I knew someone that had a Prius and he said that it would cost 3,000 to replace the battery. He never went back to Prius or electric cars.

Yes, there are 3 charging levels (my estimates from memory):

Level 1: 120 VAC for overnight charging of up to 50-100 miles.

Level 2: 240 VAC for overnight charging of up to 400-600 miles.

Level 3: ”fast DC” for 30 min charging of up to 400-600 miles.

I’m wondering how old and how many miles that Prius had.

Most Americans travel at least 2-4 long vacation trips per year. I travel from GA to WV 4 times a year and 4 hours to our rocket launches monthly. I am typical. This distance is not sufficient and it is too expensive to buy two cars.

I guess I would have to rent a gas powered car if I buy an electric.

My solution was to buy a used PHEV. That way, I can drive electric 95% of the time, and switch to hybrid mode on days I make longer trips.

 

[aerostadt]

My solution was to buy a used PHEV. That way, I can drive electric 95% of the time, and switch to hybrid mode on days I make longer trips.

So, what do you have and how do you like it?

 

[Tyeeking]

What about the fact that the USDA has cut back the amount of underbrush clearing and prescribed burns?

In addition late in the 1970’s the Forest Service shifted from their almost 40-year old “10:00 am Policy” (Every fire should be suppressed by 10:00 am the following day) to a policy of “let fires burn whenever and wherever appropriate”.

 

[cwbullet]

I really want the Mustang Mach E or Ford Lightning but I need to a better assessment on my driving and make sure it will will cover the distances I drive. I live in a rural area and there are zero chargers. I am 30-45 minutes from the neatest commercial charger Like I said before. It could be an expensive paperweight if I cannot charge it.