# Houston...We have an order.

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#### Betzbug

##### Active Member
Well, the wait was long due to the move, but my PML Eclipse will be on it's way tomarrow. I ordered it along with an 18" payload bay and will give them both a good look when they get here, make sure everything is there and in new condition. Discount Hobby in NY had the best price.
Right now I'm stuck deciding between 3 different PML fins for my bird. The Eclispe looks like it has 8" roots but I need to verify that when the bird gets here. I plan to upgrade from 0.062 fins to 0.093 fins for durability and get a longer span for better stability. Plus I think the bigger fins look cool.
Since I was able to get an Aeropack 54 to 38mm adapter used the Kwik- Switch is getting ditched since I don't plan on buying the 29mm billyclub. I also got with the adapter the 38mm retainer cap, but I think a 54mm cone is in order.
If I go with the PML Fin Design 08 and have the cone, this thing should look sorta like a sporty Black Brant X, but have CPR.
As for motors, I'm just going watch out for deals and used hardware, not in a hurry since I want to take my time and enjoy the build. This will be my L1/L2 bird and I really want to do it right. Once the rocket & payload bay check out, I have a small list of stuff to get next from Magnum in OH.
I had a chance to talk to Ken from Al's Hobby (good sale on Pro 38 stuff right now) and I found out about the TRA Quad Cities Midwest Power Launch this month on the 22nd to the 24th. I took Friday the 22nd off to get there, and my 2 daughters are going to play hooky that day to come too. Heard there was a T motor going....hehehehe, and night launches as well. Sounds awesome.
I think now that I know the difference between the NAR and the TRA, I'm a TRA man. Too pricey to join them both and the Hobbytown out here sells the mags if I want them. I picked up all of this years NAR Sport Rocketry and an Extreme Rocketry. They were ok but I think I learned more here and online and its free. I'll join the TRA as I get close to my bird's completion.
Well, my basement and I look forward to the smell of epoxy and CA. Have a good night fellow rocketeers and I look forward to hearing from you.
Take Care, Eric

#### DynaSoar

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Betzbug
Well, the wait was long due to the move, but my PML Eclipse will be on it's way tomarrow. I ordered it along with an 18" payload bay and will give them both a good look when they get here, make sure everything is there and in new condition. Discount Hobby in NY had the best price.
"on it's way tomarrow"

"Discount Hobby in NY"

Hope springs eternal. I wish you luck.

#### BlueNinja

##### Well-Known Member
You talked to Ken from Al's? You should have found the best price you could (including DHC) and told him, he would meet or beat that. In the case of DHC's price, he would probably meet for possibly less shipping cost (closer to you) AND good service. Do a search for Discount Hobby Center on this forum.

I have always had good service from Al's and they DO meet or beat any price so you could have the same price as DHC without the hassle.

#### Betzbug

##### Active Member
When I spoke with Ken, he couldn't get within $20 of D.H.'s$149.00. That's most of the Aeropack cost. Shipping was just under \$7.00. Also, I did the order over the phone, I don't like buying higher ticket items w/o talking to someone. So far I have had good follow up as well.

#### Missileman

##### Well-Known Member
Lets clear this up ok?
You are refering to Discount Hobbies Not Discount Hobby Center right?
If you are talking about Discount Hobbies you should have no problem, If it is Discount Hobby Center I wouldn't count on getting your order anytime soon.

#### Betzbug

##### Active Member
I ordered my PML Eclipse from Discount Hobby Center out of Utica NY. When I called to place my order they had the Eclipse in stock but the 18" payload bay was due in yesterday or today. I was told the order would leave today. Is this hobby store on some sorta "black list"? The replies are getting me nervous.
The day after I ordered I got a call back the next day asking me if I wanted the rocket mailed that day (last Thurs.) and then get the payload bay sent today or if I want to just have them mailed both today. So far so good....
I've read enough EMRR reviews to realize that somebody somewhere has had a bad experience with just about everybody. I thought I'd be getting feedback on my rocket of choice, good or bad, or a suggestion on a motor, not getting grilled on who I bought from

#### Zippy

##### Well-Known Member
A lot of people have had problems with DHC Utica NY including myself. There is a thread (long one) here on TRF about DHC. Frankly I'm supprised they are still in business. Good luck, I'm sure they must occaisionally deliver something to someone, occaisionally, every once in awhile, sometimes that is, if they're lucky.

#### DynaSoar

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Betzbug
I ordered my PML Eclipse from Discount Hobby Center out of Utica NY. When I called to place my order they had the Eclipse in stock but the 18" payload bay was due in yesterday or today. I was told the order would leave today. Is this hobby store on some sorta "black list"? The replies are getting me nervous.
The day after I ordered I got a call back the next day asking me if I wanted the rocket mailed that day (last Thurs.) and then get the payload bay sent today or if I want to just have them mailed both today. So far so good....
I've read enough EMRR reviews to realize that somebody somewhere has had a bad experience with just about everybody. I thought I'd be getting feedback on my rocket of choice, good or bad, or a suggestion on a motor, not getting grilled on who I bought from
Lots of people have had lots of problems with DHC. Specifically, them taking orders for things they don't have and won't be getting for weeks, while assuring the purchaser that it would be shipping Real Soon Now. They've even auctioned things on Rocketry Online that they didn't have.

However, some people have had decent service from them. I have myself, after having had bad experiences. I just made them tell me the truth as to whether they actually had it and would be shipping it by telling them I'd cancel the order if it didn't ship.

Nobody's grilling you. We're just concerned. As I said, I wish you luck. It may work out fine.

For my part, I'm willing to pay a little more for consistently better service. Great Lakes has prices that are very close to DHC. I've never had to wait more than 5 days for an order to arrive. I've also been making a habit of buying from vendors who actively support the hobby by going to launches and such. They deserve the little extra compared to straight mail order.

#### Betzbug

##### Active Member
Just from the info, costs, and advice I got from Ken over at Al's, I know they will be getting my rail, motors, and reloads biz. He mentioned a few builder tips I had not come across, and I've had 4-5 months of research time. I was almost shocked how low Al's rail costs were compared to what I've seen, and it was for an 8 footer too. I agree about supporting active vendors, I didn't research how good or bad a hobbyshop was, just the birds and all the support equipment involed with getting them flying.
I plan to stay on top of my order, I hope everything will go smoothly and it will be a non-issue. I really look forward to applying everything I've researched and thought about into practice. I even humored the idea of building the Eclipse to be an upper stage using PML's design and mounting a 75 or 98mm into the lower booster stage and try for Lvl 1 to Lvl 3 in 1 day after signing on with Tripoli that morning. Maybe that would be a record. But, I had wanted to go scatch built for Lvl. 3 and head towards the EX realm.
One of the things I want to build is a water deflector launch pad using the 8'x1"x1" rail. NASA uses water, why shouldn't we? I drew it out and brought it to my NIRA club and it started a bit of a debate. I do want to build the rocket or most of it first. I also was drafting out ideas for servo powered retractable rail guides for the Lvl.3 bird or stewed on just an electromagnetic rail, lots of bumps on that road though...
Let's just hope my bird arrives in a few days in mint condition.

#### Zippy

##### Well-Known Member
Not to step on Al's but you might want to try https://www.mcmaster.com/ for rails. The number for a 6' is 60585K41 and 8' and 10' rails should be on the same page. I have an 8' myself and it was much cheaper through Mcmaster than anywhere else. I learned about this from other members here at TRF of course and also about this place wich kinda explains it all, https://www.railbuttons.com/rb/ . Check out the FAQ's and ARTICLES on that site if you need more info.

#### DynaSoar

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Betzbug
One of the things I want to build is a water deflector launch pad using the 8'x1"x1" rail. NASA uses water, why shouldn't we? I drew it out and brought it to my NIRA club and it started a bit of a debate.
The water systems that I've seen NASA use were water cooling for vented exhaust systems.

I think water exhaust deflectors would be peachy. The bird would just need a steam-proof finish on the bottom. We don't really need it per se, but it'd sure look cool at liftoff.

#### Betzbug

##### Active Member
I'll take a look at the mcmaster site, I think Ken @ Al's said they were 10 minutes away from their store and took orders for them. Or somebody that makes rails was 10 minutes away? I haven't been to the railbuttons site for a while, I was looking at the Acme rail guides w/ lower drag, but I heard the alum. guide against the alum. rail wasn't healthy for the rail over long periods. I would like more feedback on this one.
As for the water exhaust deflector, I figured a PML bird w/ a monokote finish should be ok. Just finish the MMT area well and also leave a bit of extra space from the motor to the water's surface. I drew one up based off a PVC launch pad I saw here and then drew one up from scratch, but would be more challenging to build. I might be able to scan them in this evening after work if your interested.

#### Zippy

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Betzbug
I was looking at the Acme rail guides w/ lower drag, but I heard the alum. guide against the alum. rail wasn't healthy for the rail over long periods. I would like more feedback on this one.
I went with the buttons myself becouse they were a lot cheaper and are a very proven item. The Alum. against Alum. allso made me wonder. Acme's are probably harder to align as well. The fellow at railbuttons sent the buttons to me right away and I got them within days. Naturally since they were so cheap I bought a pile of them so I have lots for many more builds. I doubt the Acme's really have less drag anyway. Buttons are tiny and round, rail guides are long and flat with much more surface area I would think. Not that that tiny bit of drag matters much to me anyway since I like scale rockets and make all sorts of compromises to make them look like a model anyway.

#### Betzbug

##### Active Member
Good News, my wife called me at work just before noon to let me know my rocket order had arrived. I couldn't wait to get home....even thought about bailing work early. Ate dinner in a millisecond, and openned it up. Everything was inventoried and in perfect shape. The payload bay was the same. I got this order within 48 hours, pretty cool!!!
The next phase begins, getting the little stuff and construction supplies. I am so frelling excited!!!