Homeland Security and Flying with rocket motors?

[OKTurbo]

Last week I was in Wilmington DE on business. I will be travelling there again in October. After my meetings each day I would pass by a hobby store on the way to the hotel. (Hmmm...should I stop and see what they have?!?) Finally on Friday I decide that I can't stand it and stop into the hobby store. What a cool old place....Definately an "old school" hobby store. Stuff stacked from floor to ceiling.

I start browsing and sure enough, in the rocketry section they have some neat stuff. Particularly, they have two AT D21 18mm motors. These would sure be good for my woefully underpowered Outlander (18mm). They had good selection of 24mm AT RMS loads also.

I was wanting to buy them, but I was on the way to the airport in Philly, and I wasn't sure if they'd let me on the plane with two toy rocket motors. Is there a "proper" way to declare these and get them on the plane? Would I just be asking for trouble by trying to transport such a dangerous cargo?

I didn't buy the motors, but I did buy a copy of the latest Sport Rocketry magazine to read on the plane. (Simon/ForeCheck You're Famous!)

Not a terrorist,
John

 

[Tom Knighton]

It wouldn't hurt to call your local airport security and ask them about it. I'm pretty sure you can't get away with them in carry on, since they are basically considered explosives (or I assume the TSA guys would consider them as such), but perhap you could check them? I honestly don't know, but the TSA folks should know better than lil ole me

Tom

 

[eugenefl]

Why not have the hobby shop owner ship them to you? They shouldn't fall in the HAZMAT area and they should have the appropriate licenses to ship the motors. (Something like that anyways.)

I don't think *any* kind of propellant is allowed onboard a commercial aircraft. It's probably one of those things that you'll have to pass on although there are some knowledgeable people on this forum that might be able to tell you the legal methods. Good luck.

Not a terrorist either,

Eugene

 

[shreadvector]

https://nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

You can't ship them.

There is very little chance that the retail store can ship them.

If you attempt to take them on a commercial aircraft (carry on or checked luggage) it will beBAD .

 

[Missileman]

Have you considered taking a bus? JK.
You can't take them on a plane and if you go through the trouble of shipping them, you are better off just buying from an online vendor.

 

[OKTurbo]

Thanks for the link shreadvector...

Just as I suspected....not worth the trouble.

So...if anyone is close to Wilmington DE, there is a hobby shop on HWY202 North of I95 that has some neglected AeroTech motors that need a good home.

 

[Loki]

Originally posted by shreadvector
https://nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

You can't ship them.

There is very little chance that the retail store can ship them.

If you attempt to take them on a commercial aircraft (carry on or checked luggage) it will beBAD .

Maybe *you* can't ship them, but the store can ship them!

Having just gone through this, the details are fresh in mind. First, I'm only talking about motors and reloads where the grains are 30g or less. This would include most 18mm, 24mm, 29mm, and some Loki Research 38mm motors. I have a letter from the USPS that allows Loki Research to ship motors by surface mail, AT/RCS has the same letter. This privilege also extends to the dealers of our products. There is no hazmat fee and the box need only be labeled "Toy Propellant Devices, Handle with care. Surface mail only."

Don't take them on an airplane, even in checked lugage.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by shreadvector
https://nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

You can't ship them.

There is very little chance that the retail store can ship them.

If you attempt to take them on a commercial aircraft (carry on or checked luggage) it will beBAD .

You can ship them if you take them to USPS and pay the hazmat fee.

The store may be able to ship them if they have permission from USPS. It's free for the asking.

Motors cannot go by air in any event. They must go ground.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by OKTurbo
I start browsing and sure enough, in the rocketry section they have some neat stuff. Particularly, they have two AT D21 18mm motors. These would sure be good for my woefully underpowered Outlander (18mm). They had good selection of 24mm AT RMS loads also.

Mitchell's Trains Toys & Hobbies
2303 Concord Pike, Wilmington, DE 19803
(Concord Pile is US202)
(302) 652-3258
https://www.mitchells.com

The clerk doesn't know if they have USPS ground mailing permission for motors. John, the owner, would. He'll be in Monday after 9:30 AM.

 

[OKTurbo]

That's the place....

I'll give him a call next week and see if they can ship the motors.

THANKS,
John

 

[shockwaveriderz]

Originally posted by shreadvector
There is very little chance that the retail store can ship them.

FRed: As long as the Hobby shops posts a copy of DOT E-7887 they have the authority to ship motors via Fed Ex, UPS or even USPS if they label and pack them them properly......

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by shockwaveriderz
FRed: As long as the Hobby shops posts a copy of DOT E-7887 they have the authority to ship motors via Fed Ex, UPS or even USPS if they label and pack them them properly......

Now see, that's different than the USPS regs. Another example of why we need everything in one place for comparison.

 

[shreadvector]

i do not know what that is, but are you saying that the information provided by the NAR:
https://nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

is incorrect? If so, please explain exactly what is incorrect or omitted or worded badly.

Originally posted by shockwaveriderz
FRed: As long as the Hobby shops posts a copy of DOT E-7887 they have the authority to ship motors via Fed Ex, UPS or even USPS if they label and pack them them properly......

 

[shockwaveriderz]

"Estes, Quest, and Aerotech have provided this
technical material to the USPS and have negotiated blanket letters for themselves and their distributors. They have to provide a complete list of all these distributors to the USPS each year in order to maintain this authorization."


This is why I say go to the source: the manufacturer can put your company on their USPS listing as a distributor of their product then you just have to follow the USPS rules and regulations for shipping....

https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/c...atoryDocuments/USPS/usps_approval_6-17-04.pdf

and you don't then need or have to specificially contact and get the USPS waiver or permission yourself......I suspect that if youn are an individual they (the USPS) wants you to get individual permission versus just having Estes/Quest/AT whoever add you to their USPS lisiting as a distributor....

per E-7887 that applies if you wish to ship via UPS or FedEx or DHL....You must pass the Hazardous Material Training [program which is available Online Free or you can order the cdrom version.....


sorry to mix apples and oranes...of course the DOT E-7887 is for Fed Ex/UPS/DHL type shipments where the requiremenst are slightly different than if you need or want to ship product ( BP Micro maxx through Estes DE) through the USPS.....


Heres what Mary Roberts told me about E-7787 and how it works:

"As discussed earlier, Section 8. a. allows persons who are not holders of the exemption such as wholesalers and retailers to reship packages received under the exemption so long as they reship the packages in complete accordance with the exemption including hazardous materials training.

This clause enables thousands of downstream business entities to REship product of parties to the exemption without having to become a party to the exemption.

In this manner, if a manufacturer such as Estes is a holder of or party to the exemption and ships product to a wholesaler or retailer under the exemption, then the wholesaler or retailer may reoffer the package under the exemption without being a "holder" of the exemption. If, however, a manufacturer is not a holder of or party to the exemption, then they cannot legally ship their own product under the exemption. Therefore, wholesalers
and retailers would not be able to REship product of manufacturers not party to the exemption under the exemption."

The USPS uses a similar approah.....get your compnay name ofon the EStes/Quest/AT whoever lblanket letters as a retailer or distributor of their product....


Now if you are an individual who wants to ship product via USPS, as stated above, you should probably contact the USPS in DC and provide the DImensioned drawings and MSDS data sheets for the motor products you wish to ship and besure to label and package accordingly.....