High Performance Tubing sources?

Discussion in 'Competition Rocketry' started by WFWalby, Feb 19, 2016.

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  1. Feb 19, 2016 #1

    WFWalby

    WFWalby

    WFWalby

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    Does anyone still make or use airframe tubing similar to the old Blackshaft tubing? What are folks using instead? I have a desire to start doing some competing and at some point I'd even like to try FAI style comps. There don't seem to be many West Coaster's involved mostly mid-wester's. If people could point me to some resources for current designs/materials etc I would be eternally grateful. Would attending this years NARCON/NARAM be worthwhile as a way to network and meet other competitors?
    Any help welcome,
    Thanks,
    William

    NAR 60661SR, TRA 2904
     
  2. Feb 19, 2016 #2

    TheAviator

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    Unfortunately, nobody makes Blackshaft or equivalent anymore.

    As far as attending NARCON or NARAM, if I could only pick one, I would definitely go to NARAM. I will be giving a presentation at NARCON for an Intro to Competition, but usually the presentations make their way to the interweb. I will make sure that it makes its way to YouTube or similar.

    Where do you fly? By your statement, I assume the west coast, but more specifically? If there are no contests in your area, hosting a local meet is pretty straight forward and painless. Pick a couple of events you like (2-4 for a local meet), submit a sanction to your regional contest board chair, find at least two people to fly with you, and you've got a contest.
     
  3. Feb 19, 2016 #3

    75Grandville

    75Grandville

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    William,

    Welcome back. I would agree with Brian. My understanding is that NARCON is ~4-8 hours of presentations. I looked at this year's schedule and decided to pass. I know that NARAM is 5 days of contest flying!

    For info, I've been using all the good stuff here: http://www.nar.org/contest-flying/ Apogee also has some good nuggets in their newsletters.

    Last year was my first NARAM, and first year competing ever. It was great to meet some of the folks like Brian there, and most are willing to share tips and tricks. Trip Barber stopped by and advised me on parachute folding.

    The other thing I'm getting is that it's just going to take time (years) to get to the point where I will be a serious competitor. Part of that is just the time it's going to take to get experience, and make all the requisite mistakes. Part of that is the time it takes to build all the models and support equipment. But that's just me - I also have kids and a full time job.:)

    There's also the Yahoo contest group, and the contest thread on the forum. If you're within a reasonable drive of Salt Lake City, we're holding a regional meet in the spring. See uroc.org.

    Here's what I've been reading/using off the NAR website recently, which may or may not have any interest.

    http://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Whirl-a-While-A-HD-DeMar.pdf
    http://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Neutron-Fusion-NARAM-56-RD-FAI-pistons-1.pdf
    http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter374.pdf
     
  4. Feb 25, 2016 #4

    caveduck

    caveduck

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    William,

    If you're in SoCal, DART has 2x monthly launches at Fiesta Island in San Diego. We aren't holding competitions ourselves currently, but some competition types fly here regularly including Chris Flanagan, myself and sometimes Marc McReynolds. The launch schedule can be found on http://dartrocketry.org . NARAM is the real deal to actually see competition flying, especially the alternate years with FAI team flyoffs. Hope to see you out there! On the original question, blackshaft tubing has been gone for a while. It was stiff but brittle and shatter-prone, and not that light. These days if you want really low mass competition tubes it will involve making fiberglass tubes from ~0.7 oz cloth...they will be about 1/2 the mass of equivalent size paper tubes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  5. Feb 25, 2016 #5

    dixontj93060

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  6. Feb 26, 2016 #6

    TheAviator

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    Charlie's product looks great, but he uses 2x2 twill cloth. Probably works great for an HPR motor, but you need something lighter for a modroc contest model. Recently, a friend ordered some FAI 40mm airframes from a manufacturer in Russia; they are made of carbon tissue (~10-15gsm) with a little 25gsm spread tow at the 10.5mm motor mount with 4 lb/ft^3 1/32" fins. The whole airframe minus recovery and motor weighs less than 5 grams.
     
  7. Feb 26, 2016 #7

    dixontj93060

    dixontj93060

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    Oh, OK, I didn't understand your application. Hope you find something.
     
  8. Feb 26, 2016 #8

    Cogino

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    We also manufacturer tubing from unidirectional prepreg. If you would send me an email to carolinarocketry@gmail.com with the specs of what you are looking for ie. Wall thickness, weight, and diameter I can see what we can come up with to meet your specs.
    Tim thank you for the compliment!
     
  9. Mar 6, 2016 #9

    majordude

    majordude

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    Oooh! Do tell the source!
     
  10. Mar 6, 2016 #10

    TheAviator

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    I don't know the source, but I can tell you they were $50+/ea. I can, however, give you the source for the material they were made from.

    http://shop1.r-g.de/en/list/Fibre-reinforcements/Carbon-fibre/CSM---non-wovens

    The 8 gsm fabric has the same strength as 3/4 oz/yd^2 fiberglass and weights 1/3 as much. Cost is comparable, but only if you order enough to spread out the shipping from Germany.
     
  11. Mar 6, 2016 #11

    rharshberger

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    Here's an American source of similar carbon tissue, I have ordered from them before (last week to be exact) and had good service. The one you are looking for is at the bottom of the webpage.

    https://www.acpsales.com/Carbon-Fiber-Non-Woven-Fabrics.html
     
  12. Mar 6, 2016 #12

    McKailas Dad

    McKailas Dad

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    Carbon -tissue-?!

    My goodness I've died and gone..up...

    I don't want to hijack the thread, but I gotta find out more about that stuff!

    I've just been dying to make one of these...except....real :p

    And I want an 18 to match!

    ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1457242656.847428.jpg

    ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1457242588.220698.jpg

    I'd suppose the tissue wouldn't give that twill pattern though :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  13. Mar 6, 2016 #13

    TheAviator

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    Thanks for the source!

    Nope, but if you want the twill pattern, you can use Spread Tow fabric.

    http://shop1.r-g.de/en/art/C-0043100-SY

    It's a little heavier than the tissue, but would be appropriate for an 18mm model flying on a D.
     
  14. Mar 6, 2016 #14

    cwbullet

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    ACP ans SCT sales are both reliable.
     
  15. Mar 6, 2016 #15

    rharshberger

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    Add to them Soller Composites, they have the one of the best prices on 5.7oz Carbon twill I have found so far, normally.
     

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