# high fliers

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#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
are there any stock kits that can match or overshoot pml's cirrus?

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
i guess i shoud have been more specific. what i meant to say was are there any rockets that can beat the cirrus on a 38mm motor

#### LMazza

##### Well-Known Member
Same company, 38mm kit: Here

#### GL-P

##### Well-Known Member
I'm curious. What's so different about ShadowAero? I know they use composites but is that all?

I calced a 29mm rocket with an ellis mtn I69 to 12000ft

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
are there any other kits that are comparable to the cirrus in perfomance? also what are some examples of the rockets used for the mid and high power altitude records?

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
I have wanted one of these kits for years, it is the Vaughn Brothers Rocketry VB Extreme 54...

here is the review on EMRR...15,500 ft on a J125?

...and at the time you could get them, at a fraction of the cost of Shadowaero and PML Cirrus...

https://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/oop/vb_extreme_54.html

Sorry, I like performance on the cheap

#### lalligood

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bachsta
are there any other kits that are comparable to the cirrus in perfomance?
I don't know about performance but as far as size, shape, & design, there's the Concept 38 from Performance Rocketry. Can't see whyt performance would be much different if any between the two kits. Fiberglass tubing version will set you back $99 & one with carbon tubes will run ya$159.

One of these days I'll get into electronics & get my hands on one of these kits...

HTH,

#### edwardw

##### Well-Known Member
I've noticed you seem to be interested in altitude. The Cirrus will deliver that for you. But you have to also remember that when that small rocket hits 10K feet, your chances of finding it go way way down. We have a guy at our club that tried L2 with a Cirrus and a Pro 38 J285. Lost it. Bought two more and tried two more times. Lost each one. We have a pretty large field (we are on plains and you can see for about 5 miles each direction). It's flat and you can see for a long distance. The guy has sunk about \$600 into the rockets and cases and altimeters.

Even Frank Kosdon lost a Q powered rocket at BALLS that was predicted to go 80K feet. If your going for altitude, you have to remember that your chances of finding it go down also.

HTH,

Edward

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
actually its kinda more for the bragging rights. its just cool to say you have rocket that will go over 10k feet if you want it to. i probably wouldnt ever launch it on a very big motor because like you said it would be impossible to find. i guess its just a pride thing.

#### edwardw

##### Well-Known Member
In that case, I think everyone has a high altitude rocket, mine just happens to be at the store.

Edward

#### GL-P

##### Well-Known Member
That's how you start then it get worse. You start pouring altimeters into the thing. It goes downhill from there

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
lol i guess so. but i guess a part of me is just obsessed with having the best. oh and i just simmed a loc aura on an h45 and it went over 9k feet

#### GL-P

##### Well-Known Member
lol i guess so. but i guess a part of me is just obsessed with having the best. oh and i just simmed a loc aura on an h45 and it went over 9k feet
An H45 is 38mm right? Well, the aura is gonna have to be built minimum diameter to fit one. It might have to be made a little longer with some fibreglass. Then I think it could beat a cirrus dart.Make sure it's stable!!!

#### Stymye

##### Well-Known Member
johnnie from what I understand there are a couple altitude records with the Vaughn Brothers Rocketry VB Extreme 54.

one had a 4 oz layer of glass and he foiled the edges of the fins, thats all.

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
if you test the motors pml say work good for high alts on the cirrus against the altitudes and aura can get with them the aura doesnt quite mathc up.

#### GL-P

##### Well-Known Member
if you test the motors pml say work good for high alts on the cirrus against the altitudes and aura can get with them the aura doesnt quite mathc up.
Yeah, wouldn't be surprised. They both do well though. Now try a 29mm rocket with an Ellis Mtn I in it. 12000ft no problem!!!

#### Justin Horne

##### Well-Known Member
1200? Well, yeah, But really a whole lot more than that... I've gotten my 3 lb tarc rocket to that with an g and a D...

#### GL-P

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah, yeah. it's ate. Brain no fast. Me no see stake. Orry

#### Justin Horne

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by GL-P
Yeah, yeah. it's ate. Brain no fast. Me no see stake. Orry
Yep. Been there, done that... I, unfortunately, have this horrid part of me that tends to do things like this on tests and quizzes...

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Justin Horne
1200? Well, yeah, But really a whole lot more than that... I've gotten my 3 lb tarc rocket to that with an g and a D...
12 thousand not 12 hundred

#### Justin Horne

##### Well-Known Member
Tell you what though, if you did get a 29 mm min dia bird to 12k and got it back, I'd be amazed... However, it has been done, so don't give up hope.

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
like i said earlier for me it more about having it than actually pushing it to its limits. it just cool brag about having a rocket that will punch a hole in the sky.

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
What is the criteria one would meet for this 10,000 ft "honor?"

1) minimum dia
2) light weight?
3) a motor that hammers?
4) longburn motor
4)combo of both high impulse/longburn...

concider this:

Our club pres from a few years back and myself made 54mm minimum dia rockets, and attempted to get to one mile. We wanted to become a part of STARROCKETRY.COM's mile high club.

He chose a 54mm Lexan clear tube, ACME fincan, LOC cone...I don't remember what the particulars were on the recovery items that he used, I just remembered they worked. He used the new ACME rail guides with their new low drag design.

I chose filament wound fiberglass tubing, ACME fincan, ACME rail guides, and PML cone. ( I stress cone types, as LOC cones are a little more "blunt" than PML).

My rocket weighed 9.5 pounds with motor, and his weighed 7

His motor of choice was the HyperTEK J115, and I chose the HyperTEK J190. These both use the same 440cc tank system. The difference in performance of these motors was a key factor. The J115 has a total impulse of 674 and a burntime of 5.9 seconds. The J190 has a total impulse of 827 and a burntime of 4.33 seconds.

I acheived 4,557 ft. and he hit 3,445 ft. No, we did not hit our 1 mile goal, but his lighter built rocket did not have the inertia after burn out, and lost altitude rapidly. After motor burn out, my weight gain and swifter motor flew past his altitude by 1,112 ft.

One year later I flew the same rocket with the newly released 54mm 835cc tank, using the J330 EFX load, and hit 6,745 ft.
Now concider this, Tom Baiga from the west coast area of California, flew his 54mm minimum dia. ShadowAero Aftershock on the J330. His rocket weighed 4.5 pounds less than mine, and he only beat me by 1,503 ft. by going to 8,248 ft. It is strong, but it could use to add a little weight.

So I figure if the Cirrus rips your wildest dreams, then I say get it, build it strong, and fly it on a high impulse lonburn motor...K185 maybe?

good luck!

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
yah im making a list of high altitude rockets that i want to buy and build so i can better understand what you need for high performance then i will start custom building kits of my own desighn or modifying existing desighns for even higher performance

#### DPatell

##### Well-Known Member
I am currently making a 54mm rocket with a Performance Rocketry fincan.

#### edwardw

##### Well-Known Member
High performance can either be altitude or speed. It's really hard to have both on the same rocket. The guys who shred Doc Von Karbon fincans have pretty light rockets. But for altitude it's nice to have a slow ascent with lower drag. I actually am not that much of a whiz bang gone fan. I like to see them take off and burn out of sight.

Edward

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
not that much of a whiz bang gone fan. I like to see them take off and burn out of sight.
amen to that

#### GL-P

##### Well-Known Member
I actually am not that much of a whiz bang gone fan. I like to see them take off and burn out of sight.
I love standing back a bit and be actually able to see the thing at launch from start to finish.

That's the important thing. I heard stand back quite a distance. That way you don't have whiplash and can follow the entire thing. I've tracked Auras with Fs and a BB with I think an F or G. Easy as pie. They were all recovered.

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
im planning on launching an aura on a d12 for its first flight at plaster blaster and then maybe an E or F if i can get one