Hey there.

[Hellskeeter]

14 year old idiot model rocketry newbie here who can't put a fin on straight. I've had some rockets for a few years starting with some of my dad's stuff from the '70s my uncle had lying around. Went to a rocketry summer camp where we launched crappy hot glued rockets on upper stage A10-3ts with no wadding from the school playground and lost them in the field across the street. Got an Estes America set for 15 bucks at an antique shop a year or two ago with launch pad and stuff and had some fun with that.

A couple days ago we went to look at a free piano and they had two boxes full of rockets on the table nobody wanted to buy at the garage sale they had because they're moving next year. They sold them to us for 20 bucks and I've been working on getting them (more) air worthy again. I know very little about model rocketry, just the stuff you can learn flipping through old Estes catalogs, so I figured it would be useful to join a forum for it.

For my first question- can I use a green label engine in the lower stage of my Vigilante or will it just fall out of the sky after that burns up?

 

[Azamiryou]

You want a booster motor (red label) for a booster stage. The regular green label has a delay after burnout, then an ejection charge to blast the nose cone off and get the chute/streamer out. The red label is propellant all the way through — when the burn reaches the top, pressure will break through and the hot gas* will ignite the next stage motor.

Other label colors you may see are black for plugged motors (no ejection, no burn through) and purple for extra long delays before ejection.

This is Estes' color scheme, there are other motor companies that don't follow it. Also, be aware that in addition to black powder motors like Estes makes, there are "composite" motors. These are not suitable for multi stage rockets without special equipment to for igniting motors in the air.

*There's some controversy about the exact mechanism, but we know it works for black powder motors such as Estes sells.

 

[Buzzard]

If you tell this august body where you are generally located, you may find other rocketeers in your area or even a club.

www.nar.org has a section locator.

Some of us have been "rocketry idiots" for over five decades. I be one.

Chas

 

[Hobie1dog]

to the forum.

 

[Capt. Eric]

14 year old idiot model rocketry newbie here who can't put a fin on straight. I've had some rockets for a few years starting with some of my dad's stuff from the '70s my uncle had lying around. Went to a rocketry summer camp where we launched crappy hot glued rockets on upper stage A10-3ts with no wadding from the school playground and lost them in the field across the street. Got an Estes America set for 15 bucks at an antique shop a year or two ago with launch pad and stuff and had some fun with that.

A couple days ago we went to look at a free piano and they had two boxes full of rockets on the table nobody wanted to buy at the garage sale they had because they're moving next year. They sold them to us for 20 bucks and I've been working on getting them (more) air worthy again. I know very little about model rocketry, just the stuff you can learn flipping through old Estes catalogs, so I figured it would be useful to join a forum for it.

For my first question- can I use a green label engine in the lower stage of my Vigilante or will it just fall out of the sky after that burns up?

Welcome. I'm a 57 year old idiot model rocket not-so-newbie, who still can't put a fin on straight without additional equipment. And don't get me started on how horrible I am at putting stickers on straight! But it's all good, and you'd be surprised at how well crooked fins can fly.

Sounds like you got some good garage sale finds. Have fun with it, just don't shoot your eye out!

And I also suggest, as Buzzard does, that you find a club to fly with. They will hopefully have a nice field and launching equipment. There are also usually a bunch of good people who know a lot about rocketry that can help you. Plus you will see some pretty cool stuff flying.

 

[g.pitts]

If you tell this august body where you are generally located, you may find other rocketeers in your area or even a club.

www.nar.org has a section locator.

Some of us have been "rocketry idiots" for over five decades. I be one.

Chas

+1 to Chas' comment. Join a club of like-minded rocketry hobbyists, and ideally find a mentor.

 

[teepot]

Welcome to the Forum. I started at 9 and now I'm 68. Stick with it. The sky has no limit.

 

[Wrightme43]

Welcome!

As far as I can tell, rockets never stop being fun.

Go to the NAR website, and Tripoli website and find a club. They are a blast.

Steve

 

[lr64]

Welcome. At 14, it's too soon to tell if you are really an idiot, and I doubt you are even now.

If you haven't read the Estes tech reports, they might be useful. Here are some:
https://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/EstesPubs.html

If you can handle more depth and complexity, there is a LOT of good info at nakka-rocketry.net

I've recently seen what happened when someone used a motor with a delay in the first stage of a two stage rocket. By the time the sustainer lit, it was pointing straight down. Straight down under power. A little too exciting. Fortunately, it didn't hit anyone, though it was pretty close to some vehicles and closer than I would have preferred to me. The rocket was somewhat larger than the Vigilante, as I recall. It was heavily damaged by the crash, for some strange reason. You were wise to ask.

 

[prfesser]

For my first question- can I use a green label engine in the lower stage of my Vigilante or will it just fall out of the sky after that burns up?

If you can be certain that the rocket will still be pointed up when the second stage ignites, it might work. Odds are against it, though. A two-stage is usually heavy, and a "single stage" motor used as the booster won't have enough oomph to keep the rocket pointed up when the second stage ignites.

Two possibilities: second stage ignites when the rocket is pointed more or less horizontally. Second stage zooms thataway for a good fraction of a mile. Or, second stage ignites when the rocket is pointed to Mother Earth. Result obvious. Low-power BP rockets avoid the problem by ensuring that the second stage ignites almost as soon as the first stage burns out.

High-power rocketnutz often institute a short delay between lower-stage burnout and upper-stage ignition, for several reasons. That requires some careful modelling to ensure that 2nd stage is pointed in the right direction on ignition.