HermanCainAward Subreddit - Like Darwin Award for COVID Deniers

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I read an article about a subredddit called HermanCainAward that basically chronicles the social media arc of people who aggressively deny covid and mock precautions like vaccines and masks, end up getting covid, get hospitalized, typically beg for prayers, usually set up a GoFundMe, undergo an ordeal of progressively more extreme treatments, and ultimately die. It’s a pretty ugly site for schadenfreude. The comments are typically heartless.

After reading the article, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to take a look at the site or not, because the whole idea is pretty depressing. But I did go take a look. I have some very mixed feelings about it. The article does a pretty good job of describing my own feelings about it, so I would recommend reading that, even if you aren’t interested in checking out the Reddit.

It’s morally wrong to take joy in another person’s suffering and demise. But there are so many people furiously angry with people who will not get vaccinated, myself included, and that anger reaches a boiling point with people who actively and AGGRESSIVELY promote anti-vax and anti-mask disinformation. These are the same a-holes who have made the entire pandemic more of an ordeal than necessary. They aren’t just hurting themselves — they are endangering other people, they are putting healthcare workers through hell, they are taking up medical resources to the point where people sick or dying from something other than covid can’t get care, and they are prolonging the pandemic crisis for everyone. Is it wrong to think someone like that got what they deserved?

One of the most interesting points made in the irony of how the people who seem to care the most about public well-bring and would like for everyone to get vaccinated for the benefit of all of us have reached a point where they are kind of celebrating the deaths of certain people. It’s a sign of how stressed this whole situation has become.

The article discusses whether there is any value in something like this that catalogs and puts on display these stories. It’s not like they are really framed as cautionary tales with a plea to unvaccinated people to “don’t let this happen to you!” So what’s the value if it isn’t just to mock the dead. One point they make is that a lot of covid suffering is hidden. We know millions of people have been hospitalized and hundreds of thousands have died, but the vast majority of that suffering is behind closed doors. Mostly people are not dying at home with friends and family gathered. They are dying in ICUs, and typically, you can’t go visit the covid ward. So maybe there’s some value in showing exactly what is going on when a person and their family go through this nightmare.

Here is the article.

The Unbelievable Grimness of HermanCainAward, the Subreddit That Catalogs Anti-Vaxxer COVID Deaths

This is not a forum that attempts to change minds. It’s much darker.

slate.com

Here is the HermanCaineAward subreddit.

r/HermanCainAward

r/HermanCainAward: Nominees have made public declaration of their anti-mask, anti-vax, or Covid-hoax views, followed by admission to hospital for …

www.reddit.com

 

[smstachwick]

I can’t blame people for being angry at the denialists. I also can’t blame people for seeing the deaths of their most prominent pundits as a roadblock removed. You’re right though, I wish these stories were framed as preventable tragedies and disseminated with a “don’t be a sucker” message instead of people laughing with contempt.

I also think you’re onto something with the “hidden tragedy” concept. If people saw the full extent of what goes on in a COVID ward, we’d see change pretty quickly. Television coverage of the needless slaughter in Vietnam slowly ate away at the war hawks’ support, and I think we could get the same result with public health if COVID suffering were put on full display.

 

[NateB]

I also think you’re onto something with the “hidden tragedy” concept. If people saw the full extent of what goes on in a COVID ward, we’d see change pretty quickly.

I wish I could take people through a covid unit and see what we see. People are scared, lonely, and very, very sick. As different organ systems start to fail, people start developing different problems that can quickly spiral out of control.

 

[smstachwick]

I wish I could take people through a covid unit and see what we see. People are scared, lonely, and very, very sick. As different organ systems start to fail, people start developing different problems that can quickly spiral out of control.

My sister works in a veteran’s home. It killed all of her WWII veterans. She also worked in COVID wards and she’s seen some real s***.

When my father called her a murderer for working on the vaccines’ development and deployment, she shot back that if he didn’t get it, she’d personally drive down all the way from Utah to yell at him, and she’d have 13 hours in the car to figure out what she wanted to say.

He backed down and got two shots of Pfizer.

Last month he got infected, really bad. After a week of drinking DayQuil like it’s milk and being unable to spit out a sentence without coughing, he checked himself into the ER. His physicians said that had he not gotten the shots, or had he waited a day longer than he did to go to the hospital, he’d be dead now.

Because of my sister’s tenacity and the hard work of the folks who developed, tested, deployed, and administered the vaccines, I still have my father.

He has since recovered, but the only thing he can smell is barbecue smoke when people cook over charcoal. Everything else is completely bland and odorless.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I did not spend very much time on the Reddit itself, but there are sometimes some graphic glimpses into the horror people are going through.

Sometimes there is a selfie or a picture taken by someone else and posted as part of the plea for prayers or money. Or there‘s the description posted by a family member or friend. People obviously extremely ill, stuck full of tubes, oxygen mask, maybe intubated, bloating up with the gas being forced into their bodies.

And probably the most sobering thing is the change in tone of the posts as time goes on. Some of the entries include posts that span weeks, but you read them one after another. So you see the “I’m a freedom-loving badass who refuses to be told what to do or live in fear” posts, turn into the “Hey I’ve got it, but no big deal posts”, and then those turn into “This is serious, but I can beat it”, then “Please pray for me”, then the family member takes over with updates on vital signs, doctors prognosis, more pleas for prayers, begging for financial help, and then the grim end “He will always be remembered”. It’s a horrifying arc and if there are pictures, it’s that much worse. But it’s even grimmer when you think about the fact that it didn’t unfold quite as quick and neat as when you read it. Usually it’s at least a few weeks of growing despair.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I wish I could take people through a covid unit and see what we see. People are scared, lonely, and very, very sick. As different organ systems start to fail, people start developing different problems that can quickly spiral out of control.

I think if more people actually had to confront the reality, a lot of them would be “scared straight”.

 

[Zeus-cat]

My wife found out her niece isn't going to have her two teenage girls vaccinated because the girls may want to have kids when they grow up. Both parents of these girls have college educations, but apparently they bought into the the hype that vaccines are dangerous..

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

My sister works in a veteran’s home. It killed all of her WWII veterans. She also worked in COVID wards and she’s seen some real s***.

When my father called her a murderer for working on the vaccines’ development and deployment, she shot back that if he didn’t get it, she’d personally drive down all the way from Utah to yell at him, and she’d have 13 hours in the car to figure out what she wanted to say.

He backed down and got two shots of Pfizer.

Last month he got infected, really bad. After a week of drinking DayQuil like it’s milk and being unable to spit out a sentence without coughing, he checked himself into the ER. His physicians said that had he not gotten the shots, or had he waited a day longer than he did to go to the hospital, he’d be dead now.

Because of my sister’s tenacity and the hard work of the folks who developed, tested, deployed, and administered the vaccines, I still have my father.

He has since recovered, but the only thing he can smell is barbecue smoke when people cook over charcoal. Everything else is completely bland and odorless.

It sounds like your sister saved your father’s life.

 

[smstachwick]

It sounds like your sister saved your father’s life.

She did. Full credit to her.

 

[Kelly]

Television coverage of the needless slaughter in Vietnam slowly ate away at the war hawks’ support,

Television has changed a lot since Vietnam.

and I think we could get the same result with public health if COVID suffering were put on full display.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case. The media has, for valid reasons, lost so much credibility with the public that this would just be seen as just the usual propaganda from the usual questionable sources.

 

[NateB]

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

- Isaac Asimov

 

[Cnorm]

Wow. That's a LOT of dead anti-vaxxers.

 

[DES]

I think if more people actually had to confront the reality, a lot of them would be “scared straight”.

At our most recent municipal assembly meeting in Anchorage, administrators from all three of our local hospitals provided a presentation on their current ICU census, rationing of care, and the patients who had died due to lack of ICU beds, ventilators, etc. Two of the 11 assembly members flat out accused the hospitals of lying, so as to "scare people into getting the vaccine." One of those two, she demanded an explanation as to "why the hospitals were refusing to use "proven life saving alternative treatments", and instead allowing patients to die."

Some folks will never be able to confront reality, because they have created their own.

Our mayor exhibits cognitive dissidence. He is anti-mask and anti-vaccine, but pro-treatment. He had opened two additional infusion centers were patients can get mono-clonal antibody treatments, and encourages anyone who is sick to go get treated. I cannot understand how he reconciles being willing to stick a needle in your arm and pumping it full of expensive and somewhat experimental antibodies after you are sick , with not being willing to prevent sickness with a vaccine. Again, he has created his own version of reality.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

- Isaac Asimov

Unfortunately, this constant thread has grown exponentially with the growth of the Internet and the mountains of misinformation and disinformation out there.

 

[smstachwick]

At our most recent municipal assembly meeting in Anchorage, administrators from all three of our local hospitals provided a presentation on their current ICU census, rationing of care, and the patients who had died due to lack of ICU beds, ventilators, etc. Two of the 11 assembly members flat out accused the hospitals of lying, so as to "scare people into getting the vaccine." One of those two, she demanded an explanation as to "why the hospitals were refusing to use "proven life saving alternative treatments", and instead allowing patients to die."

Some folks will never be able to confront reality, because they have created their own.

Our mayor exhibits cognitive dissidence. He is anti-mask and anti-vaccine, but pro-treatment. He had opened two additional infusion centers were patients can get mono-clonal antibody treatments, and encourages anyone who is sick to go get treated. I cannot understand how he reconciles being willing to stick a needle in your arm and pumping it full of expensive and somewhat experimental antibodies after you are sick , with not being willing to prevent sickness with a vaccine. Again, he has created his own version of reality.

That’s the difference between the anti-mask anti-vaccines crowd (and much of their extended political affiliation, one could argue) and the ones who are on the opposite side of the issue. We recognize a bad theory and discard it to embrace a better one when one becomes available, while they end up accommodating both theories without realizing it. You see this in almost every area of study and discussion, too.

 

[dr wogz]

as for misinformation:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/divorced-couple-court-fight-daughter-vaccination-1.6180214

 

[jmuck78]

This is a forum about rocketry. Please keep the politics and bigotry out of the hobby.

 

[GlueckAuf]

This is a forum about rocketry. Please keep the politics and bigotry out of the hobby.

Simply clicking “ignore” at the top of this thread will vaccinate you from further annoyance. And the decision to do so is entirely your choice. As are the benefits or liabilities that may follow.

Freedom and personal responsibility. They’re a wonderful thing!

 

[jmuck78]

Simply clicking “ignore” at the top of this thread will vaccinate you from further annoyance. And the decision to do so is entirely your choice. As are the benefits or liabilities that may follow.

Freedom and personal responsibility. They’re a wonderful thing!

Sure, I could ignore it - or people could use better judgement and not turn the rocketry forum into yet another forum for airing your political grievances and gloating over deaths due to COVID.

You know damn well this is a divisive topic. If you don't want people to object, don't post objectionable, bigoted comments in a public forum. Free speech is a wonderful thing.

 

[CalebJ]

Sure, I could ignore it - or people could use better judgement and not turn the rocketry forum into yet another forum for airing your political grievances and gloating over deaths due to COVID.

You know damn well this is a divisive topic. If you don't want people to object, don't post objectionable, bigoted comments in a public forum. Free speech is a wonderful thing.

What is it that you find bigoted in this thread?

 

[Cnorm]

Sure, I could ignore it - or people could use better judgement and not turn the rocketry forum into yet another forum for airing your political grievances and gloating over deaths due to COVID.

You know damn well this is a divisive topic. If you don't want people to object, don't post objectionable, bigoted comments in a public forum. Free speech is a wonderful thing.

Also, who's gloating over deaths?

Are you sure you posted in the correct thread?

 

[smstachwick]

My interpretation was @ThirstyBarbarian shared the article and subreddit to inspire some discussion as to the ethical questions related to the activities of said subreddit. More of a “hey, I found something, can we talk about this?” than a “Hahahahaha! Look at this hilarious thing I found!”

See the difference? Intent and context are important here and I think this topic can be discussed safely. It all just depends on how mature and patient everyone is willing to be with one another.

I should add that it’s not bigotry if the mocking and contempt comes from disdain for one’s poor choices and unwise affiliations instead of some integral, unchangeable aspect of the target’s identity.

Also this is the Coronavirus discussion subforum. Very much on topic for where it was posted, even if not related to rocketry.

Did you even read the thread, @jmuck78, or did you just barge in here guns blazing based on the title?

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Sure, I could ignore it - or people could use better judgement and not turn the rocketry forum into yet another forum for airing your political grievances and gloating over deaths due to COVID.

You know damn well this is a divisive topic. If you don't want people to object, don't post objectionable, bigoted comments in a public forum. Free speech is a wonderful thing.

The thread is about a Reddit that is about cataloging covid deaths of covid deniers, and there is definitely some gloating going on in the comments on the Reddit, but not here. It’s a thread about something going on somewhere else, but we aren’t doing that same thing here.

Personally, I’ve only gone to take a look at the Reddit twice — once after reading the article and before posting here, and then once to check on something specific. I’m not going back. I think it’s toxic to the human spirit. I am angry at these deniers and anti-vaxxers, but I don’t want to cross the line to celebrating their demise, which a site like that might facilitate.

On my second visit, I did pay more attention to some of the positive stories. There seem to be a lot of people sharing their own story of being reluctant about getting vaccinated, and then changing their mind after seeing some of the stories about what happened when some of the anti-vaxxers got sick and died. And the second more positive kind of story is when someone earns a “Redemption” instead of a “Herman Cain Award”. That happens when someone gets sick and then learns from their experience, recants their previous anti-vax position, expresses remorse, and tells others to get vaccinated.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

My interpretation was @ThirstyBarbarian shared the article and subreddit to inspire some discussion as to the ethical questions related to the activities of said subreddit. More of a “hey, I found something, can we talk about this?” than a “Hahahahaha! Look at this hilarious thing I found!”

See the difference? Intent and context are important here and I think this topic can be discussed safely. It all just depends on how mature and patient everyone is willing to be with one another.

I should add that it’s not bigotry if the mocking and contempt comes from disdain for one’s poor choices and unwise affiliations instead of some integral, unchangeable aspect of the target’s identity.

Also this is the Coronavirus discussion subforum. Very much on topic for where it was posted, even if not related to rocketry.

Did you even read the thread, @jmuck78, or did you just barge in here guns blazing based on the title?

You got it. That’s exactly what I was trying to do with this thread.

 

[jmuck78]

You got it. That’s exactly what I was trying to do with this thread.

If that’s what you were going for, then i apologize.

 

[Pappy]

It’s morally wrong to take joy in another person’s suffering and demise.

is it? i think it really depends on the person who died. maybe 'wrong' is too absolute. when rush limbaugh died i felt a surge of joy. i didn't want to be happy about his prognosis before he died, but i was. i didn't wish it on him, and i felt some level of shame at the feeling, but the truth is i hated him enough to short circuit a lifetime of social programming. i do not feel this way about the sheep who follow malign hypnotists, like rush limbaugh or donald trump. i live in florida, and the vax and mask deniers are everywhere i turn, everyday. some are a-holes, i guess, but most respond in kind to friendly gestures, hold doors, and behave as folks that you'd have over for dinner (were they not plague carriers). i take no joy in the suffering of these fellow humans, regardless of stances placed aggressively in their psyches.

i think moral absolutes equate to morality ocd

 

[smstachwick]

He died? Wow, I had no idea.

When it comes to truly reprehensible people like that, I feel more sympathy for the family than the individual.

 

[Bravo52]

Also, who's gloating over deaths?

Are you sure you posted in the correct thread?

The "virtue shaming" has reached almost a level of perfection.

My sister works in a veteran’s home. It killed all of her WWII veterans.

How many ~96 yr olds did she lose?

 

[smstachwick]

One thing that we discussed during her last visit was the idea that although a specific outcome, like death, may be inevitable, the subjective experience of said outcome can cover a very wide range.

Being dropped off at Death’s doorstep with a family member or close friend to see you off is a lot more pleasant than just having some kid studying exercise science do the job. The former is impossible in a deadly pandemic and the latter is what the lucky ones get. Some end up facing the darkness alone.

Also, who's gloating over deaths?

Are you sure you posted in the correct thread?

I’d also call this ^ an expression of confusion regarding jmuck’s characterization of activities of this thread, and also an attempt to keep the thread on track. That’s not virtue signaling, that’s a valid question/request for clarification and good Internet forum etiquette, respectively. Considering that jmuck’s original objections have been resolved, I think it best to move on from that line of conversation.

 

[Bravo52]

I’d also call this ^ an expression of confusion regarding jmuck’s characterization of activities of this thread, and also an attempt to keep the thread on track. That’s not virtue signaling, that’s a valid question/request for clarification and good Internet forum etiquette, respectively. Considering that jmuck’s original objections have been resolved, I think it best to move on from that line of conversation.

Cnorm just pointed it out. It started long before that. It's a common trait among many CV discussion threads.