Help with Trig (Updated drawing)

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Banzai88

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Hello, my Trigonometry-Fu is not strong today.

My son is working on one of his uber brain tinker projects, who really knows what (probably a Q35 Space Modulator or another gravonometric warp space reality folding hyper drive) and he asked for help figuring out the length of x in the attached drawing.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

(EDIT: UPDATED DRAWING)
Trig 2.jpg
 
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You show 15.5 but the two segments that make it up are 7 & 7.5 - so should it be 14.5?
 
Divide 34/2 = 17. Now you have a right triangle with 45 as a hypothenuse. That should help.
 
I presume the 15.5 there should actually be 14.5? Not particularly important to solving the problem.
(already pointed out above)
Divide 34/2 = 17. Now you have a right triangle with 45 as a hypothenuse. That should help.
And then it becomes easy to figure out all the angles in the entire picture, then the whole thing becomes very easy.
(or is it... I need to work this out)
 
OK, apparently I uploaded the Mk1 drawing and have been provided the Mk3 drawing by the designer, LOL

Much appreciated!
 
Can we assume that any lines are parallel and/or that any angles are right angles? If not, I’m not 100% sure there’s a single solution. I could be wrong, since I haven’t really worked the solution yet.
 
I don't think you have to make any assumptions about parallel lines or angles, it is symmetric about the dashed line, so I think that there is only one possible answer.
 
Agree with boatgeek. Without fixing at least one of the angles on the zigzag line connected to the base of the isosceles triangle, I don’t see how x can be a fixed value.
 
boatgeek is right. Yes, the isosceles can be broken down to two easy right triangles but there is no information for the 11.5 hypotenuse triangle unless we ASSUME either some parallel lines or right angles at the upper end of the figure.
 
OK, wait, maybe some of us are making different assumptions about the drawing. It could be interpreted as either:

1601080353999.png

Where the red line indicates one straight line, or:

1601080377094.png

Perhaps there is an angle allowed in that section (green and blue).

I think if you look at it as one straight line (red), there is only one solution. If you allow that line to bend (green and blue), then there is no single solution for x.

At first I only saw the red possibility, maybe other see the green/blue possibility.
 
The drawing doesn't make sense to me because one side of the top triangles is 3 and other is 7.5 but they're equal distance.

If the 7.5 is accurate, then the distance from the top of the dashed line to the middle of the horizontal line is 7.5. This would mean

(x+7.5)^2 + (17)^2 = (45)^2 or 34.2

But like I said, the scale doesn't make sense so not correct.
 
If the angles at the top are 90 deg. then there is only one solution for x, since the ends of the 45" sections must meet.
If that angle is less than 90 deg. then x will be longer.
If it is more than 90 deg. x will be shorter.
 
You need 3 pieces of info to solve a triangle. The triangles needed to solve x have only 2 pieces of info (2 sides)...no matter how you slice it up. Where is the third side or angle needed?
 
Great problem! Requires a bit more than just straightforward trig, you also need to be able to solve a set of simultaneous equations.
Assuming that the drawing is left/right symmetrical, and that the segment labeled '3' and '11.5' lie along a straight line, then I get x=33.2, so I concur with Fattbank64.
 
The drawing was made by my 14 year old son. No, seriously not to scale.

The "red line" is correct as a single straight line.

Thanks for everyone's help....he was about to start cutting strings and do it old school!
 
Kelly, even if 3 and 11.5 are a straight line, there is still no possible way to solve x unless you assume a right angle or a parallel line somewhere. You MUST have 3 pieces of info of a triangle, at least one of them being a side, which we do not have. Being symmetrical here does not help.

If 3 or 11.5 is parallel to 45 then it can be solved.
If 7.5 is at right angles to 45 then it can be solved.
But we don't know those so I don't think you can get 33.2 without assuming one of the above.
 
I will have to modify my position.
Because the straight line listed as "34" will "lock in" the angles, whatever they are.
Increase or decrease the angles, and you will change that length to something else.
So I shall say it is solveable with the info given.
Now I need an aspirin.
 
Kelly, even if 3 and 11.5 are a straight line, there is still no possible way to solve x unless you assume a right angle or a parallel line somewhere. You MUST have 3 pieces of info of a triangle, at least one of them being a side, which we do not have. Being symmetrical here does not help.

The only assumptions I made were those I stated.
Here's some more info:


drawing.png

Extend the dotted line, and let's just consider the geometry to the left (since it's symmetric). Basic algebra tells us that if we can write 'n' independent equations, with 'n' unknowns, then we should be able to solve for all variables. So here are some equations we can write:
a + b = 17 (half of the 34 dimension)
b^2 + d^2 = 11.5^2 (Pythagorean theorem on the right triangle we formed by extending x) (This is a right triangle, assuming the drawing is symmetric, as the line 'x' will bisect the bottom angle and this is an isosceles triangle)
Let's call the vertical angles created where the 3/11.5 line crosses the horizontal line angle y. Now we can write
sin(y) = d/11.5 (definition of sin) and
7.5^2 = 3^2 + a^2 - 2*3*a*cos(y) (Law of cosines, applied to the triangle on the left).

We now have 4 independent equations, and 4 unknowns (a, b, d, y). Now we can use algebra, trial and error, recursive calculations, or whatever to solve and find all of these. You can also see that ' d + x' can be found from the Pythagorean theorem (17^2 + (d+x)^2 = 45^2), so once you have d, it is easy to get x.

There's many ways to do this - the key is seeing that the upper left triangle and the 'new' triangle I formed (or, the middle triangle) have an angle in common, and that locks down the geometry, and allows us to write as many equations as we have unknowns.
 

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    drawing.png
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The problem Kelly is you have an angle which you marked blue as 'a' and 'b'. You do not know these angles!!!

You have sides of 3 and 7.5 on your triangle. What is the THIRD piece of info? It's that simple.

Pythagoras required 3 pieces of info. His theorom only works on a RIGHT triangle. 90 degrees is the third piece of info needed for his theorom. You are assuming a right triangle.
 
I suggest looking at the largest triangle. The hypotenuse is 45. The "height" is 17 and denotes the length of a perpendicular from the vertex opposite the base onto the line containing the base. The angle is 90 degrees because it is perpendicular to the base (41.665).
 
I will have to modify my position.
Because the straight line listed as "34" will "lock in" the angles, whatever they are.
Increase or decrease the angles, and you will change that length to something else.
So I shall say it is solveable with the info given.
Now I need an aspirin.
Yep. The 34 & 3+11.5 make x solvable to a single value. @Banzai88's son is just messing with everyone (or perhaps his teacher). Fun problem to knock off some old rust.

@Fattbank64 knows.
 
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The large triangle is a not really a given either Fattbank. We don't know for positive that x is a bisector. We all assume it is which gives us the 3 pieces of info needed to solve it.

After that we have to assume either the 7.5 or 3 is parallel to the 45's....only then do we have an angle for the smaller triangles.
 
The problem Kelly is you have an angle which you marked blue as 'a' and 'b'. You do not know these angles!!!

You have sides of 3 and 7.5 on your triangle. What is the THIRD piece of info? It's that simple.

Pythagoras required 3 pieces of info. His theorom only works on a RIGHT triangle. 90 degrees is the third piece of info needed for his theorom. You are assuming a right triangle.
a & b are distances, not angles.
 
Kelly, it is easily solvable with what you proposed assuming one of the following two:

The angles between lines 45 and 7.5 AND between 7.5 and 3 are BOTH right angles.
Or....
Line 3/11.5 is parallel to line 45.

If one of those is true, then your angle 'y' equals the known angle between sides 45 and 45.

Otherwise angle y is absolutely not solvable.
 
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