Help with Project Hydra

[Micromeister]

Hi guys!
I'm trying do fine some data or a drawing for this missile from back in 1962. This is the only photo i've been lucky enough to come across and google hasn't helped a bit. Anyone know anything about this missile a body diameter or overall lenght would be all I need for the water launched model I'm contemplating Sport scale can be fun...

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by Micromister
Hi guys!
I'm trying do fine some data or a drawing for this missile from back in 1962. This is the only photo i've been lucky enough to come across and google hasn't helped a bit. Anyone know anything about this missile a body diameter or overall lenght would be all I need for the water launched model I'm contemplating Sport scale can be fun...

Check Jane's Intelligence Review, May 1996, article "Sea delivery: a rougue state's third option". That probably doesn't have the data itself, but it probably will have references to articles that do.

Or if you know someone in or near DC, maybe they'll stop by the Navy Archives and see what's there.

Also, the below is from an old usenet message by someone who seems to know of it. Might be worth a try tracking him down:

From: [email protected] (Mike.Tighe)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Sub Missiles (was Re: Hot Subs)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 22 Jan 92 03:04:16 GMT
Mike Tighe, (214) 497-4206
[email protected]

 

[rocketkid88]

Originally posted by DynaSoar
Or if you know someone in or near DC...

erm.... i think he *just might* know some1 in that area... LOL.
I've never heard of this b4, was it launched from some sort of platform, or from under water? Verry interesting..

 

[Micromeister]

Dyna:
I live about 200yds above Bolling AFB/Anacostia Navy station. where part of the Navy archives is held. They don't have or won't release any Info (as much as told me it wasn't their system). I'm 99.2% sure it's a naval system but, it may vary well be some other agancies toy. I'm not looking to start anything here I just think it's a really cool launch system and will make a pretty neat Scale project if a can just get a scrap of dimensional info to start from. I can alway just build it to the photo but would like to at least know what I'm actually scaling???
This is NOT a sub launched missile. it is a buoy, apparently intended to be placed "on station" for an extended period, just floation on the surface awaiting a launch signal.

Rocketkid88:
It is a totally self-contained system. the vehicle is it's own launcher as you can see in the photo. apparently sealed against water intrusion for extended time in the salt water. Looking very much like an off-shore marker buoy, very difficuilt to spot. Launched by remote signal. the Water is the launcher.

 

Did a quick search at FAS and found lots.

FAS: https://www.fas.org/man/index.html

Hydra: https://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/hydra-70.htm

Hope this helps. JP

 

[sandman]

It looks like one of those old fashioned pump up water rockets. That looks like a water spray behind it.

How many pumps does it need to be ready to fire?

sandman

 

[Hospital_Rocket]

Gosh, I remember reading about this way back as a boy. Somehow I remember that it was a derivative of a Polaris SLBM.

Now the hunt begins....

 

[wwattles]

All I could find was that it was launched at Point Mugu Naval Missile Center on March 18, 1960.(See this page)

It also apparently made several successful suborbital flights.
see this page

WW

 

[brianc]

Originally posted by Micromister
Hi guys!
I'm trying do fine some data or a drawing for this missile from back in 1962. This is the only photo i've been lucky enough to come across and google hasn't helped a bit

Well, a search of '1962 "Project Hydra"' yields 5 five hits on google...

One says the rocket was 150 pounds (March 18 1960 entry) and the first firing
was conducted at Naval Missile Center, Point Mugu.

https://www.history.navy.mil/branches/avchr9.htm

Changing the search to '"Project Hydra" Point Mugu' uncovers a PowerPoint
for Project Aquarius, that mentions CAPT John Draim, USN Ret. was the
former director of Hydra.

Searching for "Hydra John Draim", gives up some meeting minutes listing
him from Hydra Corp. and coughs up an email address - [email protected]
The minutes are from 2002, so there's a chance the email is current.

A search of the email reveals a job board posting with a daytime phone
number and mailing address-
https://www.aiaa.org/market/index.hfm?mar=13&recordid=1501&get=1&orderx=

Another hit from that search shows he serves on the AAS Spaceflight Mechanics
Committee -- https://www.space-flight.org/committee.html
And confirms the email/phone/address are current as of 2/5/2004.

HTH! & Good Luck with your hunt!

 

[brianc]

More googling with emphasis towards the scale data--

https://www.rocketservices.co.uk/spacelists/sounding_rockets/decades/1960-1964.htm

Records several launches, with comments such as-

4ft wooden pole with aircraft rocket to test sea-launch.
105ft (32m) long, with GENIE motor. Wooden rocket fired out of water. Had lead nose + fins, "POLE-1".
Underwater launch, off Point Mugu, of 46 ft (14m) long, ten-ton rocket shape.

Your pic was of the A1 (based on the filename), so that would point to the 32m
size.

This page - https://www.etext.org/Politics/Beter.Audio.Letter/dbal60
has a quote from Capt. Draim that indicates the Hydra's were of ICBM
size. In fact a lot of the Hydra stuff mentions MX missiles.

HTH!

Thanks for the interesting diversion tonight!

 

[Stymye]

heres annother grainy pic...

 

[powderburner]

Originally posted by R.P.S. Manager
Did a quick search at FAS and found lots

Unfortunately, that is a different 'Hydra' rocket.

Micromister, when I get back to the office next week I can ask around a little and see if I can dig anything up.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by Micromister
Dyna:
I live about 200yds above Bolling AFB/Anacostia Navy station. where part of the Navy archives is held. They don't have or won't release any Info (as much as told me it wasn't their system). I'm 99.2% sure it's a naval system but, it may vary well be some other agancies toy. I'm not looking to start anything here I just think it's a really cool launch system and will make a pretty neat Scale project if a can just get a scrap of dimensional info to start from. I can alway just build it to the photo but would like to at least know what I'm actually scaling???
This is NOT a sub launched missile. it is a buoy, apparently intended to be placed "on station" for an extended period, just floation on the surface awaiting a launch signal.

{Sound of forehead smacking}

Yeah, I could have looked at your name tag thingy, huh?

It's almost definitely Navy. I'm thinking it might still be classified because they haven't got around to declassifying yet. An FOIA request might shake something loose. Maybe the office of the historian at the Pentagon might be able to give some pointers.

A submerged bouy launcher -- neat. I'd like to mess with something like that. There's way more open space on Long Island Sound than the whole rest of Connecticut as far as I've seen. Not many launch spaces. Build it waterproof, replace the chute with a self-inflating balloon, and have at it. And NO TREES.

 

[Micromeister]

Wow that's much larger than I suspected! WAY COOL! That's to all for the help. guess it's all in "What" you ask google
This should make an interesting addition to my Scale fleet. Maybe even a Micro-Maxx fish tank launched version

Thanks again for the help!

WW: Both of the "This Page" links you posted come up "page not found" maybe it's better to post the url.

 

[wwattles]

Micro,

Thanks for the heads-up on the pages not working... I click-tested them after I posted and they worked. Might have to look into how my system is posting them...

In the google searches, did you find the story about the kids who decided to test the feasibility of an underwater-launched Estes-style kit? Might have some good data to start your project from...

WW

 

[hokkyokusei]

This sounds like it might be interesting:
https://www.stormingmedia.us/78/7851/A785101.html

 

[Micromeister]

WW:
No I didn't see that article I'll get it a look thanks. I built my First Polaris-UGM A1 back in the mid 70's from an article in the Model Rocketeer. I'm sure If I do a little digging in the files I still have that piece. My Model was a BT-60 based I think and was launched from Lake Anna in Virginia and other ponds and pools (3 or 4 demo launches until I Cato'ed a C5-3 ending its useful life

More recently I've been toying with a MIcro-Maxx powered model based on a .75" dia clear polyethlene mailing tube body, basswood nose and .030" clear polycarbonate fins. Rear ejecting an O-ring sealed powerpod streamer mount. The model worked fine but I may have set the launcher tube to deep (about a foot) as the model only cleared the surface of the pond by maybe 5 or 6 feet. One of the problems with flying underwater polaris type models is they want to float to the surface making hold-downs a must.. which may also have something to do with the low altitude attained by the model. Sorry no pic of this model, the best I can do is a badly compressed pdf of the 1page plan.

If I can perfect a floating model like the Hydra it may make pond and lake launches a lot easier for many reasons. thanks again for all who have posted, now it's to the drawing board