Help me choose my L1 cert rocket! (Super DX3 vs Goblin vs Zephyr)

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R3verb

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Hey All,

I'm finally taking the leap and going for my L1 cert. My model rocket history has been on and off but I'm finally ready to go for it. I've been doing model rockets ever since I was a little kid and my dad and I would build Estes kits. Last year I bought a few new Estes kits and finally started building them. I took my 2 year old out to a launch earlier this month and he loved the big ones so much I'd really like to get into something bigger (plus it's always been my little kid dream to have a "big kid" rocket).

Here is where I'm at. I have the funds to get just about any of the L1 kits but I'm stuck between 3 options:

Super DX3 4.0 Payloader (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...et-Kits/Super-DX3-4-0in-Payloader?cPath=1_82&)
Goblin (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-4-Model-Rocket-Kits/Goblin?cPath=1_82&)
Zephyr (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-3-Model-Rocket-Kits/Zephyr?cPath=1_82&)

Any advice? I feel like the one I REALLY want is the DX3 because what I'm really interested in is dual deployment. It seems like the DX3 can very easily be retrofitted to change the payload section to an e-bay. The idea would be to build it with and e-bay instead of a payload bay but fly it as a motor-eject for the actual L1 cert. Then I'm only buying that rocket to get my L1 and then get into dual deployment with something I already own.

The Goblin seems like a good choice, cheaper than the DX3 and pretty straight forward and the Zephyr seems like it's basically L1 on easy mode. Part of what I like about the Goblin or the DX3 is the challenge whereas the Zephyr seems like it's probably a lot like building an Estes kit. The glues don't scare me, I regularly work with epoxy when woodworking so it's not a new concept but a lot of what I've read about L1 is keep it simple.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Casey Levinger
 
Hello, I am sure all of your choices listed would be fine. I only have the DX3 myself. It is a great flying little rocket. And mine is DD. But you do not have to fly it DD. Leave out any bulkheads, use a rivet or steel screw to hold the payload section in place and then just use motor eject. Good luck. And having young people in the hobby is the only way it stays alive after all us old guys are gone.
 
My vote is the zephyr
I used that for my level one
Solid… strong kit…
Has great video instructions on YouTube to help guide you.
Awesome nose cone on the zephyr also
Plus there is a conversion kit for the zephy to become dual deploy if you choose in the future
Wide variety of 38mm motors to pick from and can adapt down to 29mm
 
Hey All,

I'm finally taking the leap and going for my L1 cert. My model rocket history has been on and off but I'm finally ready to go for it. I've been doing model rockets ever since I was a little kid and my dad and I would build Estes kits. Last year I bought a few new Estes kits and finally started building them. I took my 2 year old out to a launch earlier this month and he loved the big ones so much I'd really like to get into something bigger (plus it's always been my little kid dream to have a "big kid" rocket).

Here is where I'm at. I have the funds to get just about any of the L1 kits but I'm stuck between 3 options:

Super DX3 4.0 Payloader (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...et-Kits/Super-DX3-4-0in-Payloader?cPath=1_82&)
Goblin (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-4-Model-Rocket-Kits/Goblin?cPath=1_82&)
Zephyr (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-3-Model-Rocket-Kits/Zephyr?cPath=1_82&)

Any advice? I feel like the one I REALLY want is the DX3 because what I'm really interested in is dual deployment. It seems like the DX3 can very easily be retrofitted to change the payload section to an e-bay. The idea would be to build it with and e-bay instead of a payload bay but fly it as a motor-eject for the actual L1 cert. Then I'm only buying that rocket to get my L1 and then get into dual deployment with something I already own.

The Goblin seems like a good choice, cheaper than the DX3 and pretty straight forward and the Zephyr seems like it's basically L1 on easy mode. Part of what I like about the Goblin or the DX3 is the challenge whereas the Zephyr seems like it's probably a lot like building an Estes kit. The glues don't scare me, I regularly work with epoxy when woodworking so it's not a new concept but a lot of what I've read about L1 is keep it simple.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Casey Levinger
If the one you really want is the DX3, just get it. There’s no reason to do otherwise. You can always build either or both of the other rockets later. You’ll probably build lots of different rockets.
 
Casey, I did just what you are thinking. I used the base DX3 with motor ejection for my Level 1, then added an E-bay and got my Level 2 with that. Just be sure to use plastic rivets to attach the payload bay to the coupler rather than gluing it. (I had to buy another payload bay tube when I converted mine.) I don't know much about the other 2, but I hear good things about the Zephyr, just maybe it doesn't have the flexibility of the DX3. The DX3 is considerably less expensive directly from Madcow. It was only $99 when I bought mine 12 years ago. I have over 20 flights on it.

Blair
 
If you really want the dx3, you should get the zephyr. You’ll still want the dx3 so you’ll get that anyway, then you’ll have 2 rockets!! 😁

Joking aside though, the hobby is whatever you want it to be so have fun and get the dx3 if that’s the one you really want. :)

I’ll throw in another option to consider: Apogee Peregrine. It’s basically a Zephyr plus dual deployment from the start. You can fly it without DD, and (almost) just as easily with DD.

I got my level 1 with the Zephyr, and it’s still one of my favorite rockets. It solid and simple and fun to fly, plus not very expensive. It’s also in my avatar pic.

Welcome to the forum!
 
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All three are good L1 rockets.

Another question:
At your local launch can you fly HPRs, Class 2, or are you limited to Class 1 (less than 1500gram)?

I am limited to Class 1 at local launches and a reason I picked the Goblin. Flies fine on G motors and under the weight limit.
 
The DX3 is great, the only thing I would recommend is buying it directly from Madcow. Not sure why anyone would pay Apogee $185 for a resell rocket when Madcow manufactures the rocket and sells it for $135. Add Apogee's shipping rate of $30 (vs Madcow's $16 shipping) and you would be paying an almost 45% markup. That savings can probably buy your Level 1 motor. Maybe even your Level 2 motor.
 
Please don't do L1 and L2 with the same rocket. You think you're saving money, but you are losing experience. Anyway if you can't afford it, maybe HPR isn't for you right now.
 
Please don't do L1 and L2 with the same rocket. You think you're saving money, but you are losing experience. Anyway if you can't afford it, maybe HPR isn't for you right now.
Do the DX3
You most certainly can do your L1 & L2 on it, you most certainly will be saving money and you most certainly won’t be losing any experience by converting it to DD for L2. The main thing is to enjoy the build and enjoy the pursuit of your L1, then enjoy the conversion and learning DD and your pursuit of your L2, if your field can hold it you don’t have to do DD for your L2
 
Do the DX3
You most certainly can do your L1 & L2 on it, you most certainly will be saving money and you most certainly won’t be losing any experience by converting it to DD for L2. The main thing is to enjoy the build and enjoy the pursuit of your L1, then enjoy the conversion and learning DD and your pursuit of your L2, if your field can hold it you don’t have to do DD for your L2

I would not cert your L2 that way.

First off, no dual deploy required for L2, or L1. Or L3! Electronics for L3, yes.

Many other folks feel the same way. Build a rocket for each cert level. Sheesh, it's not hard.
 
My son and I got our L1 this Fall.
Mine was the DX3 and his was the Zephyr- they were both great. We got so excited after our successful flight that we planned entirely new rockets on the way home ended up going with fiberglass (Wildman Blackhawk 38 MD and Mach1 Chimera 65). We built and launched them as DD which was so much fun. Now we are planning to add fully redundant recovery and flight computers for Level 2, and for kicks and more things to build, we are are also going to convert our DX3 and Zephyr to DD (bought the parts as Xmas presents).

The moral of the story? Even if you get
a rocket that can do both level 1 and level 2, you’ll likely end up building something new for your level 2
anyway, and maybe even multiple ones in between. And you can’t go wrong with the rockets you are considering.
 
On the surface all 3 designs look good to me, all similar in size. I can't comment on kit quality and I didn't look at prices. The DX3 has a fin shape less likely to be damaged by a hard landing so it stands out to me for that one reason.
I would suggest a different rocket for level 2 depending on where you launch. The DX3 on a J motor would probably go too high for positive recovery on some fields.
 
I would not cert your L2 that way.

First off, no dual deploy required for L2, or L1. Or L3! Electronics for L3, yes.

Many other folks feel the same way. Build a rocket for each cert level. Sheesh, it's not hard.
I guess it’s a good thing that YOU do not make the rules, maybe you can cite the criteria under TRA rules why you wouldn’t cert the L2 that way. I am sure that the OP will eventually and hopefully build and fly many more different rockets and expand his fleet as time goes by but in the meantime nothing wrong with doing L1 & L2 with the same bird. Sheesh, the difference between a full I and a baby J is just a few newton seconds
 
I certified my L1 on a Zephyr last month. Can't comment on the others, but the Zephyr did a great job on an aerotech H115 DM with a 8 second delay. Have now purchased an Apogee DD kit and am going to venture into that aspect of the sport. Whatever you choose, have fun and good luck.
Bob
 
I guess it’s a good thing that YOU do not make the rules, maybe you can cite the criteria under TRA rules why you wouldn’t cert the L2 that way. I am sure that the OP will eventually and hopefully build and fly many more different rockets and expand his fleet as time goes by but in the meantime nothing wrong with doing L1 & L2 with the same bird. Sheesh, the difference between a full I and a baby J is just a few newton seconds
I don’t think Cls was saying that path was not permitted for L2 certification. I understood him to be saying he wouldn’t recommend that as a path toward certification.
You’re right, a person is allowed to certify L1 and L2 using the same rocket, but it’s pretty common for people to propose that building a different rocket for L2 results in gaining more building experience.
 
All three are great choices, I went with the Goblin for my lvl 1. Some of my reasons were that it comes with motor adapters so you can fly it on a 29, 38, or 54mm right out of the box. Also I really liked how the LOC N Fin system works and when you build the fin can outside of the rocket you end up with a rock-solid fins. Given the size of the fins this is important.
 
I L-1 with the Zephyr. It has flown more than 10 times. once it fowled the shoot and flat spoon from 1,800 ' the paint on the nose cracked. When i built it i should not have glued in the coupler so that i can turn it into dual deployment. if you add the dual employment kit from Apogee you add 21.5". i just cut my Zephyr to add the e bay. It added 6". If you want that big of a rocket LOC Iris with the e bay or the Paragon.1671397608604.jpeg
 
Choosing a L1 rocket can be so confusing. I think one of the big things that you learn flying L1 motors is the power they have. When you are used to F & G motors, you really don't have the experience to understand how much more power L1 motors have and what size rockets they can fly.

One of the first rockets I built after getting my L2, just to fly L1 motors on our east coast field, was a 3" rocket at about 5 lbs. with a 38mm MMT. It worked very well with L1 motors and stayed under about 4,000 ft. and with DD was perfect for our field. That was after I understood what L1 motors would do in a rocket that size.

Running sims on a candidate model with motors from baby H to full I motors to see what kind of altitudes you get can go a long way to help you decide on what type of rocket to build. The only problem is that L1 motors tend to push rockets several 1,000 feet higher than the MPR motors. You may not understand what that higher altitude really means when flying at your regular field until you actually push a rocket that high.

It really is about the experience. It's one of the reasons most experienced fliers don't recommend going through the certification levels fast. Running sims is great, but until you actually fly those larger motors, the power they have doesn't really hit home for most of us.
 
I did both my L1 and L2 on a DX3. I'd suggest building as many rockets as you want, use whatever rockets you want for your cert(s), have fun building, fly them safely, and post pictures afterwards.

Even though I didn't use dual deploy for my L1 flight, knowing that I wanted to use it eventually, I built the rocket for dual deploy from the beginning. I think this was helpful because it allowed me to better understand how all of the parts go together and kept me from making an error that may have prevented me from making the conversion later.

The other advantage [I saw] to setting it up for dual deploy from the beginning was that by having the bulkhead on the aft end of the coupler (AV bay), the rocket now separates at the bulk head instead of the nose cone, reducing the volume that needs to be pressurized by the ejection charge. While your motor ejection charge shouldn't have any issue pressurizing the whole body tube and blowing the nose cone, I always thought the lower volume bought a little insurance against a less than robust charge.
 
A cert flight is nothing more than a proficiency checkpoint. It's a gateway, not a goal. Fly what you like to fly, and if the cert happens along the way, more power to you. Just don't get stuck with a rocket you purchased for the pure reason of obtaining a cert that later sits in the corner of your shop collecting dust because it wasn't your first choice of what you want to fly. If you want to do dual deploy for a cert flight, why not? It's great experience and you'll have guidance from the person signing off on your cert. If your dual deploy fails on a cert flight, it's no different than failing on a normal flight. You'll still need to repair or rebuild.
 
Quick question. How much room do you have at your launch site. If you have unlimited amounts of room like some folks do, then pick any one of the three and go for it. I have experience with various LOC kits and can tell you the quality is great. The Zephyr is also a quality rocket that is an easy build. I don't have any experience with the DX3 but it looks like a nice kit.

Some advise that was given to me when I started asking the level 1 questions.

- If you're limited on space, go fat and draggy to keep the altitude down. Look for something in the 5.5 to 8.0 range.
- Don't make it complicated. Simple motor ejection. DD isn't required on Level 1 or 2.
- Don't use a chute release. Just one more failure point. Pop the chute at apogee. This goes back the first statement. How much room do you have.

And one last point. I was super nervous getting ready for my cert flight. I must have checked the rocket 10 times before the flight and was still asking myself questions right up until the chute opened. At the end of the day, this is just another rocket and just another flight. The parts are just bigger and you hopefully built it with Epoxy but.......... If you kept it simple, it's not much different than launching an Alpha. Enjoy it and leave your nerves at home.

After talking to a lot of people I went with a LOC Warlock for my Level 1. Super fat and super draggy. Flew to 812ft on an H550. I can easily stick a J435 in the same rocket and do my level 2 without any changes. I'll be adding a length of body tube just to change it up a little and kill a little altitude for the Level 2 but it's not necessary. I'm just lazy and limited on space to recover.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/loc-warlock-build-rocket-for-my-level-1.167964/
 
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