help identifying missile

[jerryb]

anybody know what this one is??

This is a picture i took of a static display outside of the Washington Navy Yard Museum about 10 years ago.. they have a Regulus II on static.. as well as this red and white one... my brothers, both long navy retiree's say that it was a surface to air missile..but dont remember which.. and i didnt snap a pic of the ID plate..

I'm sure that i've seen this as a model already..but wanted to perhaps try a scratch built of this one... (full scale would be cool huh?? )

The regulus II in blue layout like that was the scheme for the cruise missile having a nuke on board.. only 54 of the production missiles were produced... practice ones were painted red...

https://www.gbtech.us/models/RegulusII_sm.jpg

 

[Peter Alway]

That is a Talos.

Here is a drawing I did:

https://yellowjacketsystems.com/alway/images/talos.gif

That's kind of a neat color scheme. I think they were usually a boring white with a couple of color coded bands. My drawing shows a pretty-colored test round.

 

[Fore Check]

I wish I could save and post stuff with my demo version of RockSim - *gotta get the full version!!*

Anyway, the scale works out real nice to use a T204 from BMS for the upper half of the airframe and a BT70 for the lower half.

Ovrall rocket length of about 28.5", and it needs about 7 oz of nose weight. Sims to 1300' on two e9-6 engines.

I might just have to build one now - Thanks for the heads up on the drawing, Peter! I've been oogling the Talos on DesignationSystems for a while....


BTW: for my scaling on RockSim, I used the lower airframe diameter of 30.125" scaled to a BT70 (2.217") to get a scale factor of 0.073593361. Multiplying that scale factor by the upper airframe diameter of 28.0", you get a diameter of 2.06", which is wonderfully close to the T204 diameter of 2.024". So, I based my model on those two tubes and multiplied all the other dimensions by that above scale factor. This project would, of course, require a fancy custom cone from Sandman with a hollow core to add the 7+ oz. of nose weight.... I'd figure on gluing on toothpicks or something for the antennae array.

 

[Silverleaf]

Me likey red and white Talos..mmmmmm..colors good, rocket go fast quick. 8)

 

[powderburner]

Originally posted by Peter Alway
That is a Talos

and jerryb, you did know that is a two-stage missile, right?

 

[jerryb]

kinda thunk it due to the mid missile fins.... but you never know about those tricky government contractors... they get to bill more for extra fins ya know...

later
Jerryb

Originally posted by powderburner
and jerryb, you did know that is a two-stage missile,
right?

 

[Hospital_Rocket]

The Talos is my Dream project. I have my complete design done except the NC. I can't figure out how to create that tapered ramjet inlet.

My design is based on a 3" airgrame and will initially be a single stage design.

Big honking missle.

Just for the record, the version you see in the non nuclear warhead variety. The little antennae give that away. They were part of the beam riding guidance system. In the nuclear sysytem, the terminal guidance was, for some reason, not as important. Something about close enough works with horseshoes, handgreandes, and H-bombs.

 

[Ryan S.]

LOL

for the ramjet you could take a bigger nosecone, cut the top off and put a smaller cone inside of it. Might work...

 

[Hospital_Rocket]

That I can do

How do I RocSim It?

 

[jerryb]

looking back at the photo.. you'd probably only have to use ONE cone... whack off the tip with a saw... then fit it to a bulkhead and position it inside the bottom portion of the cone.. probaby have to monkey with the diameter of the bulkhead till you got the appropriate amount of the tip showing like you wanted...

I have an extra cone lying around.. i'll test my theory and let you know... lol

later
jerryb

Originally posted by Ryan S.
LOL

for the ramjet you could take a bigger nosecone, cut the top off and put a smaller cone inside of it. Might work...

 

[Fore Check]

Originally posted by Hospital_Rocket
That I can do

How do I RocSim It?

It's pretty easy - try this and see what happens. This method assumes a "flat" face on the part of the nose cone right at the ramjet inlet, rather than countersunk.

First, specify a cone. Solid balsa, conical shape, the length being scaled to your scale factor off of the dimensions in the drawing (11.82" tall, 11.024" wide at the base.) Make the shoulder settings zero (both diameter and length.) This is allowed on my version of RockSim. If it isn't allowed on yours, set the diameter and length to like 0.00001 or something.

Next, specify a transition. Solid balsa, conical shape. This will be that very short little section at the base of the cone tip. The dimensions off the drawing (which need to be scaled to your size) are: Front diameter - 11.024" (same as base diameter of your "cone") Base or bottom diameter = 15.196", height = 2.98"
Again, set your shoulder settings (both of them on this transition) to zero or as close to zero as possible.

Next, specify a second transition. This will be the main part of the cone. Solid balsa, ogive shape. The dimensions off the drawing (which need to be scaled to your size) are: Front diameter = 21.56", Base or bottom diameter - 28.0", length = 39.7".
Set the front or top shoulder to zero or as close to zero as possible. Set the bottom shoulder to be an appropriate diameter to fit your upper airframe, whatever length you like.

Voila! Try that. It will at least *look* just like the cone in the drawing. Hopefully, it will give an appropriate calculation on the CP effect. It seems to work pretty well, as best I can tell.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by Hospital_Rocket
The Talos is my Dream project. I have my complete design done except the NC. I can't figure out how to create that tapered ramjet inlet.

My design is based on a 3" airgrame and will initially be a single stage design.

Big honking missle.

Idea: 3" outter airframe with slots for fins to go through, tapered "boat tail" on the front. Inside, suspended by and connected to the fins, a 38mm minimum diamater bird with nose cone to match the model. The air intake would remain ducted all the way through to the tail: open duct from fore to aft.

Connecting the fins to the surface of the inner body would require some extra hardware, such as fin root flanges/channels, but what the hey, they'd be hidden inside.

If someone were REALLY into flow-based design work, you could maybe get the ducting sized to use the engine exhaust to pull the air flow through the model efficiently.

Those big forward fins are going to be a problem no matter what the design.

 

[powderburner]

Originally posted by DynaSoar
Idea: 3" outter airframe with slots for fins to go through, tapered "boat tail" on the front. Inside, suspended by and connected to the fins, a 38mm minimum diamater bird with nose cone to match the model. The air intake would remain ducted all the way through to the tail: open duct from fore to aft.

Or even a 54mm 'inner' rocket? (leaves plenty of by-pass flow area in a 3inch BT)

Another thought: to avoid problems with excessive fwd fin area, design the inner rocket body to be a 'shorty' that occupies the fwd half (or third) of the overall rocket. That means you will need to include a field-joint in your design, so you can open the rocket and get access to the MMT. This will keep motor weight well forward and help get proper overall stability.

 

[DynaSoar]

Originally posted by powderburner
Or even a 54mm 'inner' rocket? (leaves plenty of by-pass flow area in a 3inch BT)

Another thought: to avoid problems with excessive fwd fin area, design the inner rocket body to be a 'shorty' that occupies the fwd half (or third) of the overall rocket. That means you will need to include a field-joint in your design, so you can open the rocket and get access to the MMT. This will keep motor weight well forward and help get proper overall stability.

Hayul yeah. Who says the inner bird has to run the full length?
The portion from the exhaust down would need some decent heat protection though. What's a good, light, cheap heat protection?

You know those engine retaining mouunts? How about building the outter bird with a drop-in mount for the engine+recovery section?

Gawd, I love doing vaporware engineering. Keeps the imagination muscles in shape.

 

[teflonrocketry1]

Fore Check,

Attached is my RockSim version 5 file for the Talos design you described. Let me know if you want me to add more details. I used 6 oz of nose weight for stable flight. You could always make the forward fins non-steering and use less nose wieght.

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055

 

[Fore Check]

Bruce: That's pretty darn close to the way I have it drawn up on my demo version (you added a bit more detail at the transition between the T204 and BT70.) BTW, with the 6 oz. of weight on your model, the Barrowman margin is 0.91 (which is probably no big deal.)

What do you think of my method of modelling a ramjet cone?