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MaxQ

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Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone home?

Now I got that feeling once again.
I cant explain, you would not understand.
This is not how I am.
I .........have become............ comfortably numb.

the Floyd...Pink that is
 
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MaxQ

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OK...I'll start with a show - if you tell...

I was a tad bored with the sanding on the other builds and wanted a diversion, so I found the enlargements of the plans I had drawn up but set aside while I pondered building materials for a slightly larger test copy.

I got a lot of foam core...so I cut the formers last night for a 2X upscale of this popular kit, just because it looks cool...and sinister.

SRX.jpg
 
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bcanino

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OK...I'll start with a show - if you tell...

I was a tad bored with the sanding on the other builds and wanted a diversion, so I found the enlargements of the plans I had drawn up but set aside while I pondered building materials for a slightly larger test copy.

I got a lot of foam core...so I cut the formers last night for a 2X upscale of this popular kit, just because it looks cool...and sinister.
2X SRX? Very cool, what do you plan to fly it on?
 

MaxQ

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Fly it on?
Don't rightly know yet...I'd like to eventually upscale it 3X or 4X, but I won't sink that kind of effort/$ into it w/o trying a 24mm or 29mm size first...

I'm going lightweight on this...won't need much, but it will require a long burn with short delay.
Pop pod like the Estes kit....preset elevons...no RC ........yet.

If this goes well I'll continue with the bigger upscale...

Would look cool with a green motor, but that would likely burn too fast....probably have to go black...
 

bcanino

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You planing to do this a build thread? It would be cool to see the progress.
 

AstronMike

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...you know the one...
Once this kit first came out, I was going to make either a 3x or 4x upscale, since I was heavily involved in HPR gliders way back then, but never quite got around to doing so.

Should be pretty interesting to do if you are really attempting to make it full bodied as the original kit was, but there are two caveats you probably already know about.

The first is that since this is a no dihedral 'fat bodied glider' it will tend to rock back and forth in glide, exasperated by any crosswinds present.

Secondly is the fact that since there is no body tubing ahead of the wing, you are going to need a LOT of pod weight on any upscale. For instance, my largest HPR glider required over 5lbs to correctly ballast out, but a J motor had no problem lifting that thing.

Hmm, since I now have an even lighter version of Readiboard, I may yet make the largest size I can do and stay at a G motor (until HPR is totally unfettered). Then, I might go back to my old ways :jaw::y::shock:
 

MaxQ

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there are two caveats you probably already know about.

The first is that since this is a no dihedral 'fat bodied glider' it will tend to rock back and forth in glide, exasperated by any crosswinds present.

Secondly is the fact that since there is no body tubing ahead of the wing, you are going to need a LOT of pod weight on any upscale. For instance, my largest HPR glider required over 5lbs to correctly ballast out, but a J motor had no problem lifting that thing.

:
...You are one of the guys I want to talk to.Again.

I was concerned about the lifting body "roll" factor...I suspected I may need to mess around with the vertical fin placement and size on the 2X before advancing to something bigger...Hadn't given much thought to the pod nose weight yet...guess I'll need to see what the dry weight and CG looks like soon.

BTW: I haven't found Readiboard here as yet...although I have had fun with my Wasatch SST.

I will now need to do a rebuild, since on the last flight the elevons gave way under load on an H97, ......nice straight up part....and down part.
I planted it.
 
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AstronMike

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...You are one of the guys I want to talk to.Again.


BTW: I haven't found Readiboard here as yet...although I have had fun with my Wasatch SST.

I will now need to do a rebuild, since on the last flight the elevons gave way under load on an H97, ......nice straight up part....and down part.
I planted it.

Thats what Im here for, ask away.

As far as the roll stability problem on an upscaled SRX, this may become less of an issue if you end up with as little 'stuff' above the main flat wing, which may be the route Ill take, as well as making the vert stabs as small and perfectly aligned as possible. We all know that top mounted stabs on a glider can actually *work against* roll stability, but since most conventinal planforms use dihedral or roll axis CG located below centerline, this doesnt tend to show up often.

The vert stabs on a 3x upscale would be like 9" tall or something, and with two of them, you dont really need all that area for yaw stability in the first place. And, if one of them is a tad off, that can make any roll problem worse. Ill still use two stabs just for the cool looks, but likely use shorter span and longer chord.

So, how many good flights did you get out of your Wasatch clone? Must have been enough to get you as pumped as I got back in 92, which may or may not be a good thing :dark: Also, what happened to your last H97 flight? Did the elevons NOT raise after pod ejection? I can see a broken band, but not TWO at once!

My BT-80 Concorde (which is basically the same size/type as yours but very lighter) still does well on F motors, even though its last flight nearly went bad due to a freakish rod whip slamming it off course. Its thin walled tubing is getting pretty cooked, so this may be getting replaced after a few more flights.

Please post build threads of anything you do, and if I can get a camera, I will do likewise.
 

MaxQ

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< since most conventinal planforms use dihedral or roll axis CG located below centerline, this doesnt tend to show up often.>

I need to look at that roll axis CG relative the centerline...


<Ill still use two stabs just for the cool looks, but likely use shorter span and longer chord.>

On the stabs...or wing...?

<So, how many good flights did you get out of your Wasatch clone?>

I got probably around eight....with two crashes.
Flew very nice on a G with short delay...but one of the G flights saw the Klett hinges on one elevon pull out of the wing on the way up...with that went the single rubber band actuator stretched between the two elevons..w/o elevons actuated - it arced and nose dived all the way in but survived with just a small crimp in the BT.

<Also, what happened to your last H97 flight? Did the elevons NOT raise after pod ejection? I can see a broken band, but not TWO at once!>

Flights at Red Glare V included a very nice long slow glide off another G motor..then I got balsy and put the H - 97 in.
I didn't know how weak the hinge points had gotten over time...pink foam did not take epoxy and CA very well, and even with new monokote hinges as a back up - and the fact I also pinned the hinges into the foam with wooden pins...the force of the H-97 was significant...

The elevons were found near the launch pad and it proceeded to do an agressive slow arc out over the corn fields and impacted...splitting off a wing.
Repairable...but the conical exhaust end of the body tube had seen significant
delamination inside, making pop/pod ejection increasingly difficult.
I even had a small fire in the rear exhaust BTduring glide after pod ejection...providing an interesting crowd pleasing display late one winter afternoon...

<My BT-80 Concorde (which is basically the same size/type as yours but very lighter) still does well on F motors, even though its last flight nearly went bad due to a freakish rod whip slamming it off course. Its thin walled tubing is getting pretty cooked, so this may be getting replaced after a few more flights.>

I have yet to try the SST-lite you suggested on the old forum...I think I wouldlike to have one...rediboard,...any source online?


<Please post build threads of anything you do, and if I can get a camera, I will do likewise. >


Will DO.

 
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georgegassaway

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FWIW - the creator of the "Wasatch SST Glider" simply scaled up my BT-50 Concorde plan (July, 1980 Model Rocketeer). But from what I recall, he never acknowledged it in the kit or catalog.

At far right, a photo of the prototype (real Concorde prototype) that my model's basic color scheme was based on (nobody was into homemade computer decals then. Or even home computers then).

- George Gassaway

Concorde-Scans139.jpg


Concorde-Scans140.jpg


Concorde-Scans143.jpg


001maiden1.jpg
 
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MaxQ

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Wow...George...I did not know that.
When I looked for the plans for this glider many years ago...I actually tracked down the guys at Wasatch...in my correspondence, I don't recall hearing about your role in creating the first prototype.

I had heard Concorde mentioned before, and the similarity is pretty obvious....

And all this time we've been talking about this glider, no one mentioned it around here...and at the field. For instance - I fly often with a couple of guys that have a lot of glider flying under their belt (like Rob Edmonds and Mark Batteson) and they have been around a lot longer than me...

I'm going to mention this next time we get together on the field.
I think credit should go where credit is due.
Thanks for posting the article...reading it now...
 
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georgegassaway

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When I looked for the plans for this glider many years ago...I actually tracked down the guys at Wasatch...in my correspondence, I don't recall hearing about your role in creating the first prototype.
When I mentioned "prototype", I was referring to the colors of the prototype real Concorde (I've edited my message to reflect that). The model I built, and the plan in M.R., was not a prototype for Wasatch. The guy simply took the design from the magazine and ran with it, scaling it up and changing the name.

And all this time we've been talking about this glider, no one mentioned it around here...and at the field. For instance - I fly often with a couple of guys that have a lot of glider flying under their belt (like Rob Edmonds and Mark Batteson) and they have been around a lot onger than me..
Well, this was 29 years ago. And even if they were NAR members then, not all magazine plans from years back are remembered much unless they became "popular".

- George Gassaway
 

dave carver

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I bought a Goldberg Falcon 54 at a yard sale with the intention of learning to fly RC figuring a rocket glider wasn't the way to learn to fly:p

Soon as I have a spare $100 for a radio and servos I'll be learning:cool:
 

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Yes, I did hear long time ago about GCG's original BT50 plans, and might have even seen those once, but I wasnt intrigued enough until I decided to do a BT80 version, with light materials of course. Since I already had developed the Astron SST specifically as an HPR glider there wasnt any real need to 'reinvent' another similar sized/constructed glider so I went light.

Once Aerotech first came out with the F20 Econos (back when they were really Econo and 65ns) I then wanted to make this workable on that motor, and only could end up at around a pound for both pod and glider. Thats when it became apparent that standard foamboard wouldnt do since that much of it drug the empty CG aft, necessitating increased pod weight to ballast, the dreaded 'double penalty syndrome'.

Adams Readiboard solved this, as it is half the weight as standard foamcore but also not quite as strong. Still, this worked so well that I ended up making an entire series of BT80 midpower gliders workable on F motors.

Over time, the F20 has become no longer really 'econo', todays ValueRockets E15 now is. And so, using the latest 150 in sq/oz board, now we can make nearly the same sized gliders workable on the new E15s. Currently, there is my BT70 SkyDart (2.25x), BT70 Maxi Marauder, and several more with others planned. Just keep em around 12z and up they go.

Once I get a camera, I will post pics of these, and may do a build thread of the Maxi Marauder, the easiest glider of this size and type to build and fly.
 

MaxQ

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I bought a Goldberg Falcon 54 at a yard sale with the intention of learning to fly RC figuring a rocket glider wasn't the way to learn to fly:p

Soon as I have a spare $100 for a radio and servos I'll be learning:cool:
I bought a Goldberg Falcon 56 in 1982 with the intention of using it as a mothership for drop testing experimental rocket powered gliders...didn't quite go the way I thought.

I didn't much like power aircraft at the time, so I set the Falcon aside (still have it) and transitioned to RC sailplanes and learned Rc that way...it became my primary hobby and I met a lot of great people...
RC sailplanes is a great way to learn...very forgiving, and thermal hunting is fun and will be useful in competition if that's your intention...
 
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georgegassaway

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I'm so glad to see folks realize the way to fly an R/C RBG is ot leeanr ot fly R/C first on a real R/C plane or glider, and not try to learn on rocket boosted gliders. I know of only one person, Ben Roberto, who ever learned that way. And he was so dedicated that he went on to fly S8E (E R/C R/G) on the U.S. Team. Everybody else who tried to learn that way, they are not around anymore (or if they are still around in rocketry, they are not doing R/C that I know of).
I bought a Goldberg Falcon 56 in 1982 with the intention of using it as a mothership for drop testing experimental rocket powered gliders...didn't quite go the way I thought.
Wow a lot of good old Goldberg birds! I really learned to fly R/C for real using a goldberg Ranger 42 (on a .049). Then moved over to a Goldberg Gentle Lady sailplane to learn thermal thermal flying (I still have one and it is for sale). As I mentioned in this recent thread:

http://rocketryforum.com/showpost.php?p=22589&postcount=12

I didn't much like power aircraft at the time, so I set the Falcon aside (still have it) and transitioned to RC sailplanes and learned Rc that way...it became my primary hobby and I met a lot of great people...
RC sailplanes is a great way to learn...very forgiving, and thermal hunting is fun and will be useful in competition if that's your intention...
I did not get "seduced to the other side" THAT much, but I did, and still do, find it to be a great SECONDARY hobby.

What I would suggest now is an electric sailplane. Does not glide quite as nicely as one that is not carrying the motor and battery mass, but it beats the hell out of screwing with hi-starts, and that assumes you have a nice BIG local spot, with SHORT grass, to hi-start with. I ran out of such a local place, so that forced my hand to go electric When I converted my "VeeT" HLG to Electric, I got three 1200 mAh NiMH packs and a good field charger. I could fly for about 30 minutes total, with 6-7 minutes of motor run time and a lot of glide time, even if there was just dead air. And with the three packs, I could land, swap packs, put the old one on to recharge, and go up on the new pack, and in theory could fly all day long with nothing more than about 5 minutes from each landing, to battery swap, to putting old battery on charge, and another take-off (though I'd usually take the opportunity to get some water and even take a break in some shade on hot days). Contrasted with hi-start flights where most of the time was spent on the ground, getting the hi-start, walking and stretching the hi-start, and so forth, for sometimes 4 or 5 minute flights.

A nice choice would be the Eflite "Ascent" electric sailplane. it is an ARF, though needs a bit of work to complete it. Both wings come apart for transport (I think the span is about 5 feet, my VeeT is 5.5 feet)
 
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MaxQ

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I did not get "seduced ot the other side" THAT much, but I did, and still do, find it to be a great SECONDARY hobby.

What I would suggest now is an electric sailplane.
That pretty much sums it up too, for me anyway.

There is something "seductive" about sailplane flying...serene, gracefull, and a quiet afternoon up there in the clouds, looking where the other birds go,and playing tag with a kettle of hawks is a joy.

Yeah, the Hi start gets to be a pain in the butt, and even hauling a big battery and electric winch from the car to the site and laying out and retrieving line gets to be a hassle as well...

That said, I have a couple of electrics myself for that reason, and innovations in batteries and motors over the years have really made some nice things possible that were not availabel years ago.

(Just be careful with the LiPos........)
 

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