Hello from Colorado, Returning from Adulting

[frogglicker]

I started model rocketry back in '84 in Florida when I had idle "teenage" time on my hands. I started out building kits then elevated to scratch builds but never wandered out past the BP motors. I estimate that I built about 20 or so models including the Space Shuttle kit (one of my favorite kits). I graduated from HS then life took over. Now, I have two boys and I am jumping back in with both feet, looking to get L1 certified this summer. I found this forum through my numerous searches on how to do things in OpenRocket and I love what I see in the community. I am so happy to have found this place and look forward to meeting and conversing with you. Adulting break is over, now it's time to have some fun!

 

[hobie1dog]

to the forum

 

[smstachwick]

Very nice! Have you got an airframe and motor picked out for L1? Any E/F/G motor test flights planned?

 

[cls]

How old are your sons? Hopefully, they'll catch rocket fever too!

 

[frogglicker]

I'm looking at a couple but I'm of a couple of minds.
My 'Prime Directive' is Build it, Launch it, and Recover it. I am evaluating airframes based around the H123 38mm or H128 29mm motor (kit dependent):

1st mind: Use LP Loc IV or Apogee Zephyr. They seem to be the most straightforward builds and should handle the motor well
2nd mind: Der Big Red Max. Love the Max/Goblin design (building smaller Goblin with my 16 yr old son)
3rd mind: Scratch/mod build of same Red Max with a little longer tube to house an ebay. Might be ambitious

I'm leaning toward the 1st option, but I have a bit of time. I would like to roll into the L2 cert attempt shortly after. Lots to consider.

 

[frogglicker]

How old are your sons? Hopefully, they'll catch rocket fever too!

16 and 10. The teenager keeps "bashing" me with the "why do I need math?" I need to show him. The 10 yr old is a wildman and want me to strap him to one. They are both excited about doing this. My wife, not to be excluded, wants one too. I'm gonna need a side hustle

 

[Daddyisabar]

All Colorado Rocketry lunch in the Denver Tech Center/ Inverness on February 25th. Be there to meet the Top Men and Women of Colorado Rocketry. Tripoli Colorado website.

 

[smstachwick]

16 and 10. The teenager keeps "bashing" me with the "why do I need math?" I need to show him. The 10 yr old is a wildman and want me to strap him to one. They are both excited about doing this. My wife, not to be excluded, wants one too. I'm gonna need a side hustle

16 was about when my math education ended. My answer to that question is as follows:

More than likely, he won’t. Not beyond basic algebra, anyway. Most math at the high school level or beyond, he can safely leave to the world’s engineers, scientists, pure mathematicians, and all other manner of people smarter than he is, or who are working in different specialties. In fact, the actual math is perhaps the least applicable takeaway from later math classes. The ability to gracefully work on an apparently pointless task; ask for assistance, clarification, or accommodation; manage expectations placed by oneself and others; accept that the work is good enough even if it isn’t perfect; accept that there are lessons to be learned from flawed work; learn in small increments; tolerate setbacks or proposed solutions that don’t work; prioritize a workload; work from an educated guess; identify how/when to, and how/when not to, game a system; and identify unconventional workarounds to a problem, are all more valuable than the math itself.

But if he learns the math on top of that, it can open doors that would otherwise stay shut. Does the answer look right? Is the decimal in the right place? Are they using units that make sense? Does the data support the conclusion that’s being forwarded? Is there data that’s missing that would otherwise support a different conclusion?

And if the math itself proves an insurmountable barrier to learning those other lessons, much of it can be learned on the range or later in life. Take the C- and get out, if he must. He’ll have plenty of time to master it in adulthood, if he chooses to.

Your other kiddo and your wife should be easy. A small Estes kit and a few packs of 1/2A-A-B-C-D motors at a big launch event should give them an idea if they want to stick with it.

 

[cls]

I respectfully disagree: it's about finding the right motivation.

My son in 10th grade was getting straight Fs, except for an A in chemistry. Why? Good teacher, who worked with him on his passion, which was rocket propellant. From that, he went from hating algebra (rightly, I think it's taught entirely wrong), to understanding the college level math for propellant calculations. So of course the next couple years of high school math were "boring", but I was reassured that my teenager was normal in that way, everything is boring, Dad.

So maybe OPs sons will get rocket fever, it can lead to so many great interests.


Last, please folks understand the difference between arithmetic and actual mathematics. Luckily I'm good at both, many folks are good at one or the other. No judgement about it.

 

[teepot]

Welcome to the Forum. Greetings from Southern Nevada.

 

[Onebadhawk]

Welcome to the forum..
That's so wonderful that the whole family is interested in the same thing and will be doing it all together..
Do not underestimate the significance of that..
That's just wonderful..
Even the wife, lol..
Mine said forget it..

You all just go enjoy yourselves out at the field..

Teddy

 

[sriegel]

Welcome to the forum. What part of Colorado are you in?

 

[cthunter01]

Welcome from another Colorado member!

If you’re anywhere along the front range you’re not more than 2 hours from one of several great high power ranges. Even if you’re not there are some in the high country as well.

Zephyr is a great kit for L1, I did mine on a zephyr.

Roughly where in Colorado are you?

 

[frogglicker]

Welcome from another Colorado member!

If you’re anywhere along the front range you’re not more than 2 hours from one of several great high power ranges. Even if you’re not there are some in the high country as well.

Zephyr is a great kit for L1, I did mine on a zephyr.

Roughly where in Colorado are you?

I live in East Centennial, just south of Aurora. I have mapped out the three bigger fields, and you are correct. Just in the 2hr range. I'm trying to find a smaller area around here to launch low-powers with my boys and still stay out of the obnoxious zone. When I was a teenager, we just walked to a dirt lot and launched for hours. Are football/soccer fields still considered decent places without "Karen/Chad" intervention? I want to be respectful and safe. Suggestions are always welcome!

 

[smstachwick]

I live in East Centennial, just south of Aurora. I have mapped out the three bigger fields, and you are correct. Just in the 2hr range. I'm trying to find a smaller area around here to launch low-powers with my boys and still stay out of the obnoxious zone. When I was a teenager, we just walked to a dirt lot and launched for hours. Are football/soccer fields still considered decent places without "Karen/Chad" intervention? I want to be respectful and safe. Suggestions are always welcome!

You’ll want to check with the local fire/police department and see if you need a permit. Check with the property owner too, and get their permission in writing if you can. Keep launch sessions short and be careful to land on the field. 3-6 flights should be tolerable to neighbors. Longer than that might be considered a nuisance.

Be friendly and welcoming to others coming on the range, give spectators a heads-up before proceeding with the countdown. Produce a permit and/or permission document if they question the legality of your activity, and pack up if they show continued annoyance. You won’t gain anything by being argumentative.

 

[David Schwantz]

Hi Welcome. You cannot strap your kid to outside of rocket. It is dangerous. But if you build one big enough you can put him inside

 

[frogglicker]

You’ll want to check with the local fire/police department and see if you need a permit. Check with the property owner too, and get their permission in writing if you can. Keep launch sessions short and be careful to land on the field. 3-6 flights should be tolerable to neighbors. Longer than that might be considered a nuisance.

Be friendly and welcoming to others coming on the range, give spectators a heads-up before proceeding with the countdown. Produce a permit and/or permission document if they question the legality of your activity, and pack up if they show continued annoyance. You won’t gain anything by being argumentative.

thank you for the advice. Much appreciated. Yes, when I find a place nearby, I want to be able to return, so having enthusiastic onlookers is preferable to conversations with an angry mob.

 

[frogglicker]

Hi Welcome. You cannot strap your kid to outside of rocket. It is dangerous. But if you build one big enough you can put him inside

Thanks, David. Say someone wanted to attach a dependant to a larger rocket, would you maybe suggest E6000, JB Weld, or some other type of adhesive? :: Asking for a friend::

 

[David Schwantz]

pro line 5000 from Wildman.

 

[cls]

Velcro always works!

 

[teepot]

Duct tape for the win.

 

[Daddyisabar]

I live in East Centennial, just south of Aurora. I have mapped out the three bigger fields, and you are correct. Just in the 2hr range. I'm trying to find a smaller area around here to launch low-powers with my boys and still stay out of the obnoxious zone. When I was a teenager, we just walked to a dirt lot and launched for hours. Are football/soccer fields still considered decent places without "Karen/Chad" intervention? I want to be respectful and safe. Suggestions are always welcome!

Some old dudes fly low power out of the park by the Broncos training facility in Dove Valley. PM for info if interested. CRASH is outside of Ft. LUPTON up to 125g propellant weight (small H). COSROCS in the Springs LPR and Peyton for up to 125g. Join the big boys at NCR, SCORE, TRIPOLI COLORADO OR SLVR FOR NSL in May...the really really big ones!

 

[milehigh]

Hi, foglicker,
Shoot me a PM with your contact info, and I will put you on the notification list for upcoming Dove Valley launches.
Also, check out my blog linked below. There are lots of launch report posts that will give you an idea of what we're all about.

Hope we can meet you soon.

 

[milehigh]

I don't see the link. Here it is:

BlastFromThe Past

Model Rocketry from another Old Fart Born-Again-Rocketeer

castlerocketeer.blogspot.com

 

[brockrwood]

Welcome! Love the Kerbal profile pic!

I could never get the hang of Kerbal Space Progam. I must try again.

 

[boatgeek]

thank you for the advice. Much appreciated. Yes, when I find a place nearby, I want to be able to return, so having enthusiastic onlookers is preferable to conversations with an angry mob.

Also, the conversations with Karens are far easier if you have a child or tween with you when you're launching. That makes it "science" and not "fireworks."

PS When fundraising at work for my high school rocketry club, I described it as giving teenagers low explosives and poorly aimed high speed projectiles. That approach works far better with a group of engineers than landowners.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

16 was about when my math education ended. My answer to that question is as follows:

More than likely, he won’t. Not beyond basic algebra, anyway. Most math at the high school level or beyond, he can safely leave to the world’s engineers, scientists, pure mathematicians, and all other manner of people smarter than he is, or who are working in different specialties. In fact, the actual math is perhaps the least applicable takeaway from later math classes. The ability to gracefully work on an apparently pointless task; ask for assistance, clarification, or accommodation; manage expectations placed by oneself and others; accept that the work is good enough even if it isn’t perfect; accept that there are lessons to be learned from flawed work; learn in small increments; tolerate setbacks or proposed solutions that don’t work; prioritize a workload; work from an educated guess; identify how/when to, and how/when not to, game a system; and identify unconventional workarounds to a problem, are all more valuable than the math itself.

But if he learns the math on top of that, it can open doors that would otherwise stay shut. Does the answer look right? Is the decimal in the right place? Are they using units that make sense? Does the data support the conclusion that’s being forwarded? Is there data that’s missing that would otherwise support a different conclusion?

And if the math itself proves an insurmountable barrier to learning those other lessons, much of it can be learned on the range or later in life. Take the C- and get out, if he must. He’ll have plenty of time to master it in adulthood, if he chooses to.

Your other kiddo and your wife should be easy. A small Estes kit and a few packs of 1/2A-A-B-C-D motors at a big launch event should give them an idea if they want to stick with it.

Who cares if you need it? What about the fun?!?! Yeah, learning through school is tough, but once you have those tools, oh, yeah! About a year ago I got the Saturn V Owner's workshop manual (Haynes) and it had the mass flow rate of the engines. I thought, "Geeze, it's not really an aerodynamic issue when it's just clearing the tower... I wonder if I could calculate the time to clear the tower?

So I wrote out the equations of motion (In terms of force, mass and acceleration, also accounting for propellant flow), integrated them through velocity and displacement, and matched published figures pretty durn close! 9.8 seconds to clear the tower at a speed of 60 mph.

The thing about math is learning all the neat things you can do with it. Making sure you're not rooked on financing interest, finding the best buy in stores (especially when they keep changing the weights on packages), comparing our national debt to the moon rocket and a trip to the moon, and most importantly, ROCKET PERFORMANCE!

 

[Buster]

Hi Welcome. You cannot strap your kid to outside of rocket. It is dangerous. But if you build one big enough you can put him inside

But you can strap a wandering coyote to it.

 

[frogglicker]

Oh, now you've done it... I'm searching for Wile E Coyote models to strap to things...

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Oh, now you've done it... I'm searching for Wile E Coyote models to strap to things...

If you can imagine it...