Hellfire Dip Kit

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Neil

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Well, we got a Hellfire igniter dip kit from Performance Hobbies. Its just a bottle of powder and liquid (in the same bottle), and (im not sure if it goes with the bottle or not) a bag of white stuff that looks like powdered shugar.

Only problem is, it didnt come with any instructions at all. And I cant find a website anywhere.

So if anyone has any idea how the heck this stuff works, please speak up... We need all the help we can get :rolleyes: :(
 

n3tjm

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The white powder is most likely AP. Pour in some AP into the pyrogen bottle and mix, pour in a little more, mix, a little more, mix, and so on till all of the AP is mixed ino the pyrogen. DO NOT try to mix it all at once... you will just make things a lot harder for you. I do not know much about that brand, but you should be able to add a little acetone if the solution gets to thick. Oh, and only add a little bit. A little goes along way ;).
 

Neil

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Thats AP!? Cooooollll... :D So Ive gotta mix the whole darn bag in there, little tiny bits at a time? Does it dry up eventually (I hear acetone brings it back to life even when its dry...???)? It says it has enough stuff to make 1000 small ignitors... We have 60 or 70 ready to dip right now... That should be enough for a year or so. So, in, say, 2006, will there be a way to bring it back to life?


OK. Go over this just to make sure we wont screw up and blow a 10 foot deep crater in the back yard...

Mix up the stuff thats in the bottle.

Mix up the stuff in the bag with the stuff thats in the bottle (do I mix it right in the bottle, or do I use something else to hold it in like a plastic cup?)

Dip igniters.

Now, do I try and get it real thick so I get all the pyrogen I need in one dip, or do I make it semi thin so it takes several dips to get it big enough? Seems like that might make a difference for some reason...???
 

n3tjm

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mix it in the bottle the stuff is already in.

If it drys up, adding Acetone may or may not reactivate it. That depends on the brand.

OBTW, how did you talk your folks into letting you get an igniter kit? Now I don't have to double up on wire orders ;). Which reminds me... my Magnelite collection is getting DANGEROUSLY low...
 

Neil

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No idea. I just asked my dad a few weeks ago and he said yes. Toatal flip-flop. Half a year ago he was refusing to even consider it due to the chemicals. Not complaining, of course! ;)

I guess we will be taking a shot at it tomorrow...

How long does it take for the stuff to go dry?
 

n3tjm

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Depends on humidity... but you can handle them in a couple minutes, and I have used them 10 minutes after dipping on a dry day.
 

Stymye

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A trick I found was to mount a broomstick horizontal you can curve the bare ends of the igniter and hang them upside down to dry..you can even hang them first than dip, makes it super easy.
I dipped 60 igniters in less than 10 min.leave them hang to dry and you can go back with the bottle and double dip some if you want.
 

Neil

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I was talking about the stuff in the bottle. HOw long before it is solid?

I saw you showing a guy how to stage Estes motors more reliably with that stuff... I think you were putting the pyrogen in the nozzel with a paintbrush... How does that work? Does it just dry up there, get lit by the booster motor, then burn really really hot, setting off the motor?
 

n3tjm

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I fill the nozzle with 4FG BP, and then cap it off with very thin Magnelite pyrogen. I use a toothpick and let it drip on the nozzle. Then use a finger to press it down. I use this on small throat BP motors. I have also used it when staging one motor to several motors.
 

wwattles

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While we're talking dipped igniters, I'm gonna sidebar off Neil's thread for a moment here...

What are the nozzle diameters and the internal grain diameters for the L1/L2 size rockets? The guys I'm going to be using these with will be flying everything from F's to K's with maybe an L, but not likely. I just want to be sure that these igniters will fit through the nozzle and up through the grains!

WW
 

Ryan S.

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if it fits in the nozzle, it will fit in the grain.

Grain throats differ for all kinds of motors.

www.rocketmotorparts.com may have the throats for AT motors

and www.lokiresearch has a bunch of throats. I am sure if you follow that, make them a little smaller, you will be fine
 

Neil

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Well, we mixed it all up, and dipped a few igniters for testing. We fired them off an old Duracell 9V, which took a while to make the nicherome glow red hot, but it did eventually, and it worked pretty well. I imagine it will work better once we have a 12V battery. Ill see if I can get my dad to use his motorcycle battery to light it off with, see if it works a little better...

So we dipped all 70 something ignitors, and used up almost all the pyrogen. Theres still a little left, but not much. So much for a thousand ignitors... :rolleyes: I experimented with some single-folds, and one double-fold just to see the difference. :D I fired off the double fold just now... :D It took a while to do anything... It smoked for a while (nicherome was making up its mind about lighting it), then it ERUPTED! I have never seen a flame that big on an igniter!!!! It was sooo cool! Hot enough to light a motor, thats for sure!

Once we added a little acetone, they got even better looking. They still look a little lumpy, but oh well. They sure burn pretty well. Sure they arnt perfect, but, as my grandfather would say, "You aint buildin a piano!" (pretty much meaning "it doesent have to be perfect")
 

wwattles

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Great job, Neil!

Now you just gotta resist the urge to go out and "play" with your new toys on the "testing" premise. Got any REAL launches soon to wow and amaze your colleagues?

WW
 

BlueNinja

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heh.... magnelite has pretty much the same properties. I fired a magnelite-copperhead off my estes control even. Took 5 seconds or so to light, smoked most of the time, but when it went, wow.


Doug, you seem to be an advocate of magnelite, will it be ok to use without maybe 1/8 gram of oxidizer? if not does it use ap for the oxidizer?
 

Neil

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lol. My dad says if I "test" another igniter, he will be very very angry... :D But boy was it fun! Even better than those multicolor sparklers! :D ;)

Well, theres a launch on the 18th... I hope to fly this rocket on this motor again. Heres the pic of it flying LAST weekend on an I161. I still have one of those motors left, and methinks ill fly it again on the same motor... And I think ill fly my Nike Smoke again on another I motor... Ill take a video this time so it works better... I can test out my new igniters!! :D What fun!

And I wont be sick this time! So it will be even MORE enjoyable! :D
 

airwolfe1

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Hey Neil....that launch site looks familier. You also had a nice launch with your minimum diameter. I'll look forward to hearing a sonic "Pop" next time.

I shot off a Minnie Mag on an I161.
 

n3tjm

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I love I161's :). To bad I don't have any :(. I even recently aquired a new case for one... New? Yeah Right. It says ISP on it ;).

ML-12 wires will fit any F motor (except F12's).
I use no-fold for up to 29/180, Single folid for anything larger.
 

Neil

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Oh yea... I loved that pic Dave sent around with you pointing to the bottom of your Minie Magg and making a funny face :D Wasnt that your re-certification flight?

Yea... Pity about the sonic pop, or lack therof. Im gonna get a nosecone for this other 29MM minimum diameter bird I have right here and try and get another H125... THAT will go mach :D Or maybe an I200 in the Raptor...
 

jetra2

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Originally posted by n3tjm
Single folid for anything larger.
Although this will work - you might want to use a double fold for those big motors above K with the single nozzle throat (no Medusa's), especially for harder-to-light motors like Redlines or Green Gorillas. You want as much heat on the entire core at once as you can get!

Jason
 

n3tjm

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Oh, sorry I was not clear on that. I meant to say double fold for larger 29's and all 38's. I also attach Blue Thunder and White Lightning slivers to my igniters in some of the harder to light motors.
 
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