user 35280
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,468
- Reaction score
- 869
Have You Built An Estes Alpha?
- Thread starter lakeroadster
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
carlsonmjc
Member
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2019
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 3
My first rocket was an Alpha, 1969. Still have it. I put the wrong edge of the fins on the body so it looks a little different.
Mark C
Mark C
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
And as I noted before, that's a nose cone made by BMS and is a nice balsa rendition of the Alpha III/IV/VI/etc. injection molded nose cone, as you can clearly see in the comparison pictures @ZoomieG and I both posted.
Your Semroc BNC-50K looks pretty good. I suspect it was from the original Semroc (before Carl passed away). Even so it's not quite a crisp as the Estes BNC-50K. Really close, probably close enough, though.
The 1984-1992 blow molded nose cone comes to a nice crisp point if you clean up the molding flash. I hate to say it, but the current Chinese-made blow-molded nose cones (post ~2003) have less mold flash and a smoother surface than the US-made ones (either 1984-1992 or the 1992-2002 shape).
Bill Simon tells the story that in the early days he'd just go to the lathe and make a shape that was pleasing, and that was how a number of Estes balsa nose cones, including the BNC-50K that was on the Farside, Drifter and a few others before the Alpha, came to be. Not mathematically defined at all, which I think might be why some of these later shapes don't quite match.
I'll be interested to see how your 3D print version comes out.
user 35280
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,468
- Reaction score
- 869
The Semroc BNC-50K is the closest currently available that I know of. It's pretty close, with the caveat that current ones are a little less well-defined than the ones Carl and Bruce made. The original PNC-50KA was a fairly successful attempt by Estes to create a blow-molded plastic nose cone that was "close enough" to the original Estes BNC-50K, at least in my opinion....which is worth exactly what you paid for it. 
Fishhead
Huge Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,020
- Reaction score
- 825
For my 15th birthday, I received an Estes Deluxe Starter Outfit, which was an Alpha Starter Set. Ninfinger Productions: 1977 Estes Catalog We celebrated my birthday on Friday so I built the Alpha that night, painted it the next day, and badgered my Mom to take me to NKU un Sunday to launch it. (Also took along my Beta and Condor.) The Alpha was up first, and really cranked on a C6-5. Winds were calm at ground level, anything but up higher. The Alpha flew perfectly, popped the chute at apogee, and began racing to the north toward the still wildly overgrown section of campus and the I-275 construction site. It landed back in the overgrowth, which was almost completely inaccessible, and thus became the first rocket I ever lost. Three years later I started attending NKU and found the landing area had become a gravel parking lot. I thought of the Alpha every time I parked out there.
user 35280
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,468
- Reaction score
- 869
I saw this T-50 “KA” balsa cone at ASP, but the picture is a conical cone.The Semroc BNC-50K is the closest currently available that I know of. It's pretty close, with the caveat that current ones are a little less well-defined than the ones Carl and Bruce made. The original PNC-50KA was a fairly successful attempt by Estes to create a blow-molded plastic nose cone that was "close enough" to the original Estes BNC-50K, at least in my opinion....which is worth exactly what you paid for it.
https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecommerce/T-50-Wood-Nose-Cone-KA.cfm?item_id=1130&parent=14&navPanel=
user 35280
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,468
- Reaction score
- 869
AC Supply has these in bulk,
https://www.acsupplyco.com/estes-mo...and-accssories/acnc50-model-rocket-nose-cones
That's the current Estes Alpha (and others) nose cone. Shape from 1992 or so onward.
I voted no because I’ve never built one for myself, but I helped students in school build a lot of them over the years. The Alpha is almost certainly the most popular Estes kit of all time because I never taught a roomful of primary students to build Big Berthas. Of course other bulk packs, like the Wizard, would also have high numbers.
Doug Holverson
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2012
- Messages
- 655
- Reaction score
- 595
Yes.
Maybe I need to build this unicorn from my stash. :3
Maybe I need to build this unicorn from my stash. :3
Seriously though, catalog that very carefully if you open it. Photos, measurements, scans with a ruler….everything. You never know what might end up going missing at some point.
Neutronium95
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2010
- Messages
- 1,080
- Reaction score
- 1,579
I don't think that I've ever built an Alpha, come to think of it. I think that I remember having a kit at home when I was a kid, but I have no memory of building and flying it. Maybe that should be rectified.
How does the Alpha II differ from the I and the III?
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
My understanding is that Estes kept changing Nose Cones (balsa to plastic and profile of taper), Fin Cans (balsa & cardboard to plastic) and Paint Schemes....
Last edited:
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
If you feel like diving down the rabbit hole go to YORF and search on the Estes Alpha - more discussions about millimeter changes in fin patterns and nose cone shapes than you can shake a stick at!
stantonjtroy
Well-Known Member
Second kit I built (around 45 years ago). Many since then; Usually the first I'd build with my kids, then grandkids. I've kept at least one in the collection; Typically, the first one I fly at a launch, either on a C bp or D composite, to gauge winds aloft. Sounding rocket if you will. The last dozen or so have been scratched from my extensive parts stash so to lose one isn't the end of the world.
NateB
Well-Known Member
I've built several and the Alpha was one rockets I built. I don't have any at the moment, but I have thought about building a 54mm upscale.
GlennW
Well-Known Member
I had the Alpha III that came with my launch setup when I was a kid, I still have it but it is destroyed from so much launching that at this point I just am using it for spare parts. More recently I built 2 Alphas, one with the current paint scheme and one with the original look.
The Alpha II was created at the behest of Bob Cannon, who was the educational director at Estes for many years. It came into being before the Alpha III, as you'd expect. It was originally the EK-25 vs. the regular Alpha as K-25. It later became #1419 when the K numbers were superseded.
Configuration-wise the first iteration came with the fin lines and launch lug line already drawn on the body tube (what a job that might have been!) and had a different motor mount assembly with a longer motor tube in which the shock cord was tied to the top of the motor hook (so no tri-fold).
It also had die-cut fins from the outset - no tracing and cutting out fins as with the original Alpha.
As things evolved, the die-cut fins went to K-25/1225. The Alpha II also introduced the blow-molded plastic nose cone (the first shape) in place of the BNC-50K and screw eye, but reverted to the standard motor mount and tri-fold shock cord mount. At the end of it being a separate product the Alpha II was simply an Alpha kit in different packaging, except for the pre-marked body tube.
I actually have a set of instructions for an Alpha II as #1421 and it is otherwise identical to a regular #1225 Alpha at that point - not even a pre-marked tube. This is circa 1990.
Also a variation on this motor mount illustration (but without the shock cord attachment) shows up in some versions of the Alpha (1225) instructions, though the regular Alpha never had this longer motor tube. I still wonder what the thinking was here, as the Alpha is kind of tight on internal space already without putting motor tube in it that was an inch or so longer.
Alpha III was Mike Dorffler's different attempt to make an easier-to-assemble Alpha and introduced the plastic fin can and that elliptical nose cone with the tiny screw eye in the boss off to one side. As I noted somewhere earlier, the Alpha III is essentially unchanged save for coloration from 1971 when it was introduced until now.
Of course, when Estes started having the parachutes pre-made, they appeared that way in Alpha and Alpha III kits. I think (but am not sure) that the Alpha II as a separate product was gone by that time.
goose_in_co
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 666
- Reaction score
- 552
I have built several. Lost on Alpha 3 with the red fin unit years ago.
Here is the set that I have now:
Alpha I, Alpha III, Super Alpha, Alpha IV, Alpha VI.
Goose
Here is the set that I have now:
Alpha I, Alpha III, Super Alpha, Alpha IV, Alpha VI.
Goose
What's with the nose cone on that Alpha IV? It should be Alpha III/VI-shaped, just molded in black.
Well then you need to. Still balsa fins (though laser-cut) these days.
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
What year was the Alpha II sold?
I spent literally the entire day looking at Estes catalogs, from 1963 through 2022, and saved a copy of every page that had Alpha's, and I may well have missed it but I didn't see any mention of an Alpha II?
I'm not doubting anything BES or anyone else is saying, I simply didn't see it. Maybe I missed it?
Last edited:
Looking at a few instruction sheets available online, one of them has “A Subsidiary of Damon” printed underneath the Estes logo. So definitely during that era.
https://www.oldrocketforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21765
It also recommends an A5-4 motor and has an EK number, if that narrows it down.
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
1977 through 2007
Alpha showed up in the 1967 catalog. Alpha III showed up in the 1971 catalog.
1967
1968
1969
1970
1971
Alpha showed up in the 1967 catalog. Alpha III showed up in the 1971 catalog.
1967
1968
1969
1970
1971
I suspect that just like today's Hobby Lobby exclusives, the Alpha II was never a catalog item - but instead sold through the Education department at Estes. The earliest one I have any information on dates to the spring of 1971. As I said before, based on the configuration of the 1421 model's instructions and the parts used, it is no later than 1989 sometime in the 1990s. The early info I got from Mary Roberts as I was researching the "regular" Alpha for that fall of 2017 MoF event I've referred to before. I'm not entirely sure how I came across some of the more recent instruction sheets I have....a couple of them have come to me via batches of stuff donated to my club.
I also have a small number of physical Alpha II kits - the earliest one is the yellow face card that appeared right at the Damon acquisition and the latest one is like Doug's "unicorn" above.
Here are three sets of instructions I have in my possession that are not pulled from Alpha II kits I have:
The Alpha (K-25) first appeared in the 1967 catalog, but its first public appearance that I've been able to find is in a late 1965 Model Rocket News, as part of newly released starter sets (where it replaced the Aerobee in them).
It is also interesting that the Alpha II and Alpha III came into existence at about the same time....
I also have a small number of physical Alpha II kits - the earliest one is the yellow face card that appeared right at the Damon acquisition and the latest one is like Doug's "unicorn" above.
Here are three sets of instructions I have in my possession that are not pulled from Alpha II kits I have:
The Alpha (K-25) first appeared in the 1967 catalog, but its first public appearance that I've been able to find is in a late 1965 Model Rocket News, as part of newly released starter sets (where it replaced the Aerobee in them).
It is also interesting that the Alpha II and Alpha III came into existence at about the same time....
Last edited:
Similar threads
