# hard rockets

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#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
what are some cheaper rockets that take a while to build and are pretty hard to build?

#### Karl

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Are you looking at things like Estes / Quest / Fliskits rockets ? Or bigger ones like Aerotech / PML / BSD ect?

If your looking for small models , things that have a Skill Level of 2/3 are ok to build.

Where as most HPR rockets take a while to build.

Karl

#### rocketsonly

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bachsta
what are some cheaper rockets that take a while to build and are pretty hard to build?
How cheap is cheap? $20?$50?

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
lets say less than 60 maybe 80 dollars

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
and im talking about mid power models

#### jetra2

##### Well-Known Member
If you're looking for something big AND difficult, you can't beat an Estes Saturn V...that thing just LOOKS complex! They can be had for between $70 and$150 on the 'net - surf around.

If you just want something big, the Estes Executioner is 2.6" diameter and just about 3' tall. You can get it at Hobbylinc for only $31 + shipping. If you want REALLY big in the model rocket category, you MUST get the Fliskits Richter Recker. At only$34.95, it's a steal for all the parts that are in it! You can get some nice flights on 3x E9's to over 1500 feet!

Another big and complex rocket, but not as complex as the Saturn, is the Fliskits Tres. With 12 total fins that need to be cut, and a somewhat complex motor mount, it's probably your best choice overall. Make sure you get yourself a Deuce at the same time - you're not truly a member of TRF until you have one. Just kidding.

Good luck on making a choice!

Jason

#### DynaSoar

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bachsta
lets say less than 60 maybe 80 dollars
Aerotech Mirage. 2.6" dia., 87" long, weighs 2 lbs. Flies on some F and mostly G motors.

It's not too easy, not too hard and takes a while to do a good job on it. Great Lakes lists is for $59.95. You can get a PML tail cone for it for$16.95 (TC2.5-1.1). Adding this will add a fair amount of challenge and probably performance. It definitely looks much better than having a flat base.

You can replace the AT motor hook with another motor retainer. A Slimline will cost about $20. I added both of these to mine, and made it capable of holding motors up through Ellis Mountain H's. There's an article on EMRR about it. There's cheaper alternatives for the motor mount. You can make one out of PVC parts for$2. You could make this work with the PML tail cone, but you'd want to use the 1.5" motor tube version so the PVC threads would fit inside the hole in the cone.

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
Two options:
1. Scratch build a Crayon from a Ralphco crayon bank like these:
https://www.ralphco.com/Html.MainPages/banks_crayon.html

This can be a relatively complex and time consuming project if you use through the wall fins, modular design, etc.

2. Modify an Estes Outlander for 24mm E power. This is a great mod and somewhat time consuming to assemble and finish properly.

Either of these projects can be completed for $30 or less. #### wwattles ##### Well-Known Member Complex, time-consuming, and MPR? Go for The Launch Pad's Plan-Packs. You even have to roll your own tubes! I've got one of their more complex ones (RIM-67A) that has been on my work-in-progress list for over 6 months! Another time-consuming rocket is the ACME Spitfire (Those custom cut shrouds are a pain to get just right). It's not MPR, really, but it's a 24mm mount and it's pretty tough getting everything to line up right. But when it all is lined up right, you've got yourself one cool rocket! WW #### SpartaChris ##### Well-Known Member I second the Estes Saturn V. It was a challenging build, but pretty worthwhile after the first few flights. Plus finishing it isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world to do. -Chris #### Stymye ##### Well-Known Member for that price range ,I also vote the Estes Sat V ,you can go wild with it or, build it super detailed, or both .. and it takes you thru a good range of building techniques.not to mention the "kewl" factor. #### bachsta ##### Well-Known Member hmm. how about along the lines of a higher performance rocket that is a time consuming project(2-3+ days) #### SpartaChris ##### Well-Known Member Originally posted by bachsta hmm. how about along the lines of a higher performance rocket that is a time consuming project(2-3+ days) That would be pretty much any project, if you take your time and make it detailed. I am of the belief that rockets are only as great as you make them. That said, taking your time to pour perfect fillets, making sure your CP and CG are in check and getting a proper paint/decal scheme can easily consume a couple of days, even weeks in some cases. -Chris #### bachsta ##### Well-Known Member ok like lvl for or lvl 5 kits that are high performance and high altitude(1 mile or higher) #### Justin Horne ##### Well-Known Member Just a note: With mid and low power rockets, to get them really high they have to be very small... Those of us high power people have a hard enough time with our really big rockets.... I'd be surprised if you recovered one of the mid or low power rockets that were > 1 mile, unless you have great eyes, and LOTS of room... Not to discourage you, just pointing stuff out... #### SpartaChris ##### Well-Known Member Originally posted by bachsta ok like lvl for or lvl 5 kits that are high performance and high altitude(1 mile or higher) why don't you consider scratch building your own? you will be able to price it yourself and it would be more challenging for you. that way you get exactly what you want. plus it will take you more than two days to build. just a thought. -Chris #### bachsta ##### Well-Known Member im pretty much brand new so i dont really know all that much about what constitutes a good rocket. so right now im just trying to figure things out and find out what works and what doesnt, basically get some experience #### Zippy ##### Well-Known Member If you want high performance for a reasonable price buy an Estes Black Brant II. Build it stock then fly it on a D12-7. If you get it back upscale it only slightly to a 29mm minimum diameter using PML tube and solid cast nose cone. With a big H it will go supersonic and over 5000'. Even with a G in it you'll be lucky to get it back. Or just try the Estes BBII with any 24mm Aerotech motor and you'll be very lucky to get it back. #### bachsta ##### Well-Known Member sweet do you have instructions for the black brant 2 so i can just skip getting the estes kit buy parts for an upscale. also wouldnt it be a good idea to use fiberglassed tubing for something that will go super sonic? #### Missileman ##### Well-Known Member If you are new and you want to fly over 5,000 ft on midpower for experience. Well that can be some expensive experience. There is a fair chance, with little experience, a high performance rocket not built perfectly will likely shread if shooting for such high altitudes. Even if it doesn't there is a chance you will lose it anyway. #### bachsta ##### Well-Known Member ok but do you have instructions for the bbII #### Zippy ##### Well-Known Member JimZ's site will have plans for the Estes BBII. As missileman said it can be an expensive experiance flying to 5000', on such a small rocket especially. Hard to keep site of. Use a single use motor and a streamer if you do it. The stock Estes BBII kit is only about$14 last I checked and is an excellent choice for hipo in LPR at low cost. Cloning it from plans would be even cheaper of course. Use a smaller 'chute than what Estes provides becouse even with the logo cut out it will drift a long long way.

EDIT: Yes you will want to at least glass the fins on a minimum diameter mach buster. The tube (on a 29mm BBII) will be so short I doubt it will need it but it's probably a good idea anyway. One layer of thin cloth should do. To much added weight and it won't break mach. Don't cry if you loose it.

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
sound good. oh and what do you think of rockets that are currently being made like the mach buster or usr's fiberglass series and the cycline 3 xroc prototype?

#### hokkyokusei

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bachsta
what are some cheaper rockets that take a while to build and are pretty hard to build?
Hmmmmm. This is cheap, and I dare say that building it and converting it for flight would be doable, but not easy!

https://www.currell.net/models/n1.htm

#### bachsta

##### Well-Known Member
that sounds like its just a paper model

#### hokkyokusei

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bachsta
that sounds like its just a paper model
It is just a paper model. That's why converting it for flight is hard...

#### Zippy

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by bachsta
sound good. oh and what do you think of rockets that are currently being made like the mach buster or usr's fiberglass series and the cycline 3 xroc prototype?
I've never actually seen any of those so I couldn't say.

#### Daedalus

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by hokkyokusei
It is just a paper model. That's why converting it for flight is hard...
Looks doable - and would make a really smart model. Definitely a winter project.

No, that doesen't mean I will do it, Yes, if I do I'll take photos

#### hokkyokusei

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Daedalus
Looks doable - and would make a really smart model. Definitely a winter project.

No, that doesen't mean I will do it, Yes, if I do I'll take photos
I downloaded it ages ago with this intention, but I never quite get around to it...

#### Daedalus

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by hokkyokusei
I downloaded it ages ago with this intention, but I never quite get around to it...
The V2 looks good too - maybe a better first paper model to bash. Must try printing some of them out and seeing what can be done.

Roll on the winter and a serious building program, but not until after K-LOB!!