# GUNS & ROCKETS

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#### Michael L

##### Random Pixel Generator
TRF Supporter
Hmm.....most of my precision shooter friends are talking quarter-MOA or better.
One MOA at 1000yards is 10 inches.

At our range - we are targeting 1-sqft steels all the way to 1600yards.
Hitting those on the first shot is the goal.
Hand held. Standing up. No rest?

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Personally, I don't care for using a can on a rifle and using standard loads. It's hard on the internals of some cans. It's still noisy so what's the point? My son-in-law shoots full power loads through his cans all the time on his hog and coyote hunts.
Note the word "personally" at the start of the sentence. I don't care what other people do as long as it's not pointed at me.

1,000 yard shots are doable with open sites... it's doable with no sites... How repeatable is it? Are you just slinging lead or trying to land the projectile inside of a small, sub moa, circle consistently?

If you're shooting subsonic rounds through a can at 1000 yards the effect is measurable and significant. It's not rocket science it's physics. Actually... it kind of is rocket science...

.308, 200 gr Lapua subsonic bullet, Trail Boss Powder (hard to come by these days, or so I'm told), . Primer hole bored 9/64" These days most people say that opening up the primer flash hole is not necessary. That suits me fine. It's a pita to put a case in a collet chuck, bore it, take the case out, rinse, repeat and it makes the case "special".

My subsonic loads average 1,025 fps. Supersonic, at seal level. is 1,100 fps. 1,000 yards, 80 degrees F, sea level, 100 yard zero

Bullet impact relative to LOS
-1,888.1" / -157' / -180.1 MOA / 720 clicks (sounds like a lot but it's only 3 degrees)
Zero mph wind. Windage
41.1 inches right
3.9 MOA
16 clicks
Velocity at impact: 755 fps. Still useful but at somewhere between 200 and 300 yards the bullet starts to tumble. Bye bye accuracy
Time of Flight: 3.451s Lots of time for a little gust, dragonfly, etc to affect the flight
Energy at impact: 253 fpe (foot pounds of energy) 100fpe is considered the minimum to inflict a wound

.308 with 168gr bullet (Berger, SMK, whatever). I don't recall the powder and primer used. Its' a hunting load

Bullet impact relative to LOS
-414.02" / -34.5'' / -39.5 MOA / 158 clicks
Zero mph wind. Windage
11.1 inches right
1.1 MOA
4 clicks
Velocity at impact:1,123 fps. That'll leave a mark...
Time of flight: 1.766s
Energy at impact: 472 fpe (foot pounds of energy)

A .338 300gr SMK or Berger at 1000 yards drops 25 moa (about 12'), hits at 1,763 fps, 2071 fpe and takes 1.347s to arrive.

I will say this in favor of cans and using a "normal" bullet - a few years ago Shawn Carlock showed his .338 Edge with a can that he made on it. He wasn't and didn't sell them. He said that he could shoot the rifle without hearing protection and accuracy was still decent.
I would think a subsonic round at 1000yds would bounce off the paper.

Seriously, I made subsonic 223 rounds. Accuracy was crap but didn’t keyhole. I swear it made a sound like a pencil punching through paper.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
8 foot group at for that style weapon at 1200 yards ain't bad at all!
Especially if its an original Trapdoor Springfield!

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
Probably the most notable low velocity shot at long range was Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls.
He knocked an Indian off a horse at 1538 yards with a 50-90 Sharps. He even said it was a lucky shot.
I have been to Adobe Walls, there is a big white square on the hill where the receiving team was. I had a 30/30 with me and looked at the square over iron sights. It is ever so far.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Added a DD 1 o clock offset optic mount to my V9. It mounted and tightened down without issue on a DD quad rail.

On my V7, I wanted a similar setup, so I added a (5) slot, M-LOK mount rail section from Magpul, and added another DD offset mount. When the bolt was fully tightened down, it did not snug up enough against the Magpul rail leaving minimal play in the setup, which was frustrating.

Solution was to JB weld the offset mount to the rail. If needed, I can still remove the rail/offset mount in its entirety. I'll check tomorrow and see how it cured up.

Solid...

#### RocketT.Coyote

##### Well-Known Member
Someone bought the last Swiss K11 carbine at our local Cabelas. Had patina on the receiver. No ammo for it in stock.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Ran a carbine class this last Sunday using garbage Barnaul 300 blk, and using the offset red dot pictured above. Challenging to use the back-up optic the entire time, but got it done...

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
We have an unknown cartridge
Smaller diameter than a 224, larger than a 5.7
Middle one, not a TCM
Any ideas?

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
We have an unknown cartridge
Smaller diameter than a 224, larger than a 5.7
Middle one, not a TCM
Any ideas?

View attachment 466828
View attachment 466829
Not much info to go off there, head diameter, bullet diameter, and case length would be good starts. The head picture looks to be a military brass head stamp, WCC 45 is a known 30 Carbine headstamp. Could be a 22 MMJ aka Spitfire.

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
Good call. We have a reamer for 22 Spitfire. Will compare to gauge.

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
That’s it
Interesting it was a single piece from a bucket of desert pick up brass. Someone missed it.
In a bucket from someone else there was 5 pieces of 348 Winchester necked to 30 caliber and rim turned to a rimless. Old school short Mag.

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
Millions of rounds of 22LR heading for US stolen

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Found a new home for my 5.56 ACSS Aurora ACOG, moved this Credo 1-8 in its place.

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
Nice
I like low power scopes, I have half a dozen Leupold fixed 2.5x on hunting guns.
I hunt close, typically under 25.

#### teepot

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I'm the opposite. I like high power scopes. I have a 8x32, 6x24, 4x16. Here is a picture of something I picked up.

#### AHansom

##### Well-Known Member
Trap shooting leagues are over for a few months. Did a good cleaning and replaced springs and firing pins in my MX8 and TM1

#### UncleJoe

##### Well-Known Member
Why did you have to replace the pins and springs? Where you having problems with gun firing?

#### teepot

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Here is one of mine. It is in 30.06. It has a 2.5 pound Timney trigger and a Douglas double x barrel on a Pilaster stock. The scope is a Sightmark 8 x 32. It will shoot sub MOA when I can. The suppressor is a YHM .

#### teepot

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
That is really nice. I'm a 1911 guy too.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Back to my friend's farm in IL... so very kind to leave us a gun friendly runway between fields!

Spent the bulk of the day training a new female shooter how to shoot a pistol. As a lot of folks are aware, not a trivial effort.

#### bronicabill

TRF Supporter
WOW!!! Where are you getting ammo at???? 5.56 @ $10.99 a box is a steal! Sorry so late responding to this, but just found your post... My last purchase of 5.56 equaled a mere$6.60/box for NATO rounds. I bought a case (1,000 rounds) locally for $330.00 right before the elections in November. I highly doubt we'll ever see prices like that again, so I'm glad that last case brought me up to a lifetime supply! Last edited: #### bronicabill ##### Well-Known Member TRF Supporter My reason for buying Blazer ammo in the first place was twofold: 1. It was priced lower than everything else, and 2. My conscience wouldn’t bother me if I didn’t pick up my brass. Unfortunately, the Blazer aluminum didn’t have enough impulse to reliably operate the roller locked HK94. It works fine in the MPX though. Fortunately, I bought some Privi Partizan for$145/1000. I just wish I bought 10,000.
I have been shooting Blazer for many years with excellent results... but only Blazer Brass, NOT the aluminum stuff! I have more Blazer Brass in 9mm than any other brand or type!

#### bronicabill

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I found yet another rabbit hole to go down... Cowboy Action Shooting! How and why is the rabbit hole, but I ended up at my first match this past weekend, as a visitor only. I attended a monthly shoot for the North Alabama Regulators and had the most fun I have ever had as a non-participant. But I learned a lot and made a number of connections.

The event started with the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer...

The match site was set up like an old west town...

And the weapons are just old west bad-assedness

I do not have any firearms or leather just yet, but I do have an alias and an SASS membership... By alias, every shooter has to have an old west alias, just like "Billy The Kid" etc. I am Maricopa John!
Are they still over in Grant near Cathedral Caverns?

#### Jim Hinton

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
That sequence scares the hell out of me. I believe that the firearm is a 500 S&W. Such a firearm should be reserved for expert shooters only. I know of one case where an inexperienced shooter fired a S&W 500. The recoil brought the gun around completely like this footage. The shooters finger was still in the guard. and the motion of the gun cycled the revolver, double action. This resulted in a discharge which struck and killed the shooter. Should something like this be attempted, think again. If they just have to shoot it, PLEASE load only one cartridge.

Jim

#### bronicabill

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
While not as powerful as the S&W 500, I have shot a 454 Casull, and that was quite enough for me... and I'm not a little guy!