# GUNS & ROCKETS

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#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
I got an e-file Form 1 approval back yesterday.......16 days from fingerprints received to approval in hand!
With the e-file form 1, you then have to mail in the fingerprints, correct? Does the e-file form direct you to where it needs to go I assume?

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
With the e-file form 1, you then have to mail in the fingerprints, correct? Does the e-file form direct you to where it needs to go I assume?
You get an email with a cover page after submission that gives you an address. You put that cover letter in the envelope with your prints....and off it goes!
Most of us use priority mail to get tracking and start the counter the day after it shows delivered.

#### teepot

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I got an e-file Form 1 approval back yesterday.......16 days from fingerprints received to approval in hand!
Did you do the form yourself or did a shop do it?

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
Did you do the form yourself or did a shop do it?
Efile Form 1 is something you do from the comfort of your own home. You can even do your own fingerprints and pictures.

The only thing you need a shop for is a Form 3/Form 4 transfer, really.

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#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Efile Form 1 is something you do from the comfort of your own home. You can even do your own fingerprints and pictures.

The only thing you need a shop for is a Form 3/Form 4 transfer, really.
So there is no fingerprint "card" or formal form for fingerprints? Not understanding how you can do the prints yourself, very curious!

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
So there is no fingerprint "card" or formal form for fingerprints? Not understanding how you can do the prints yourself, very curious!
You can get the blue fingerprint cards for free from the ATF web site. They'll send them to you in about a week. The form is FD-258. Note, red fingerprint cards are used when you get arrested and they fingerprint you to confirm your identity. You can't use red cards for ATF processing!

#### teepot

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Swap the barrel. I would keep all the parts I could.

TRF Supporter

#### UncleJoe

##### Well-Known Member
I've been using lapua brass, I've gotten 12 to 15 reloads. From time to time a case will fall out of spec. I'm shooting silhouette with 7mm-08 getting 2695fps. I do true, size, and trim all my brass to match my chamber.

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter

Just so you know, and since you brought up your dislike of PSA as a lowest common denominator product....BCA falls into the Tier 3 manufacturers list, too. Some of their stuff is OK, most not so much. And the side charger is gimicky, at best. Tends to shear off the bolt that holds the handle to the carrier and it's a metric pain in the arse to fix.

If you're going to put the time and effort into a Grendel, spend the coin and step up a notch in quality and a longer barrel than a 20 inch, even if you source mid-tier parts and assemble it yourself.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
I've been using lapua brass, I've gotten 12 to 15 reloads. From time to time a case will fall out of spec. I'm shooting silhouette with 7mm-08 getting 2695fps. I do true, size, and trim all my brass to match my chamber.
Even with my 220 Swift I am usually able to get about 15 firings from brass before starting to get failures. Care of the brass has a lot to do with life span. I neck size only (or at worst partial size on all bolt guns whenever needed), anneal every 5 loadings, inspect webb area for thinning, and clean well, trim as needed.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Just so you know, and since you brought up your dislike of PSA as a lowest common denominator product....BCA falls into the Tier 3 manufacturers list, too. Some of their stuff is OK, most not so much. And the side charger is gimicky, at best. Tends to shear off the bolt that holds the handle to the carrier and it's a metric pain in the arse to fix.

If you're going to put the time and effort into a Grendel, spend the coin and step up a notch in quality and a longer barrel than a 20 inch, even if you source mid-tier parts and assemble it yourself.
Good info. The Grendel barrels seem to be out of stock everywhere. Might be COVID related. I got a BCA Wilde barrel for free a couple years ago from a promotion they had after I sent them a copy of my DD214. I figured they’d send me a crap barrel but I’ve been really happy with it.

Since I’m not shooting long range or hunting, I figure I’d save on a 20” barrel. Not sure if it’s worth the $100 for the extra 100 FPS. I guess I’ll hold off until later unless I see a holiday special. I still need to decide if I should sell the 300blk upper or take it apart for salvageable parts. #### rklapp ##### NAR# 109557 TRF Supporter Johnny has been using the same side charging upper for the past 5 years and continues to have FTF issues. He says it's a gas block problem but I wonder if it's the side charger. #### Banzai88 ##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed TRF Supporter The ONLY AR side chargers that ever worked well and consistently were the ones that were purpose built to have a non-reciprocating handle on the left side of the upper and used a modified FAL style folding charging handle and a proprietary matching bolt carrier. The extra weight of the reciprocating bolt handle does funny things to the carrier (that was never designed to have a weight hanging off the right side of it). The handle bolt comes loose, causing the jiggling handle to throw off bolt timing some, and ultimately bending/breaking the bolt handle bolt off in the carrier. Sometimes when this happens the bolt handle will depart the flight pattern out into parts unknown. I know everyone in my area that has one (including myself), because sooner or later they all come across the gunsmith logs for some issue or another related to it. Side charging AR uppers have been around loooooooooonnnnnngggg before piston uppers were ever a 'thing'. In all that time, they've never really figured them out from a strong engineering stand point and they've never caught on commercially. The original AR15 hyper custom house for competition ARs, JP Enterprises, used to offer a VERY high end side charger, and even they abandoned it. By contrast, in less time in the market place, every single issue with piston adaptations to the AR platform have been surmounted and addressed in one manner or another to the point where a drop in kit is available from a dozen manufacturers and even the average Billy Bob can install one and have a lifetime of trouble free shooting. If you decide on the BCA side charger (and I'm NOT saying "don't". Please do what makes you happy), based on personal and professional experience, here are my top 10 recommendations of things to have handy long term: 1. A box/100 of replacement handle screws from McMaster-Carr 2. A torque screw driver and the proper hex bit for the bolt handle screws 3. A healthy respect for 'just enough torque'. Check early, check often 4. A replacement bolt handle. Maybe two if you're the type that likes to repeat certain lessons 5. A healthy relationship with a GOOD machinist to remove the stubs of broken bolt handle screws (see #1) 6. Money for #5 7. Preparation for being charged double THIS TIME because you used loctite/rockset on #1 and/or didn't use #2/3 and the bolt handle bolt broke again and #5 is really pissed at the added aggravation 8. An expectation that it's gimicky and that it will not be as reliable or durable as a conventional configuration 9. An expectation that I might be wrong about all of this 10. A pre-purchased replacement upper and bolt carrier for when you realize #9 is a joke and two years later of messing with it you're finally ready to swap that otherwise great barrel over to something more reliable There's a reason why only one third tier manufacturer is currently offering these things, EVEN in this HYPER gun market where even 3rd tier guys are selling out to bare walls............... As always, YMMV Last edited: #### SkyFire ##### Well-Known Member Not missing this year! #### teepot ##### Well-Known Member TRF Supporter thats great #### MClark ##### Well-Known Member I bought this yesterday, got a deal, half off! #### rklapp ##### NAR# 109557 TRF Supporter The ONLY AR side chargers that ever worked well and consistently were the ones that were purpose built to have a non-reciprocating handle on the left side of the upper and used a modified FAL style folding charging handle and a proprietary matching bolt carrier. The extra weight of the reciprocating bolt handle does funny things to the carrier (that was never designed to have a weight hanging off the right side of it). The handle bolt comes loose, causing the jiggling handle to throw off bolt timing some, and ultimately bending/breaking the bolt handle bolt off in the carrier. Sometimes when this happens the bolt handle will depart the flight pattern out into parts unknown. I know everyone in my area that has one (including myself), because sooner or later they all come across the gunsmith logs for some issue or another related to it. Side charging AR uppers have been around loooooooooonnnnnngggg before piston uppers were ever a 'thing'. In all that time, they've never really figured them out from a strong engineering stand point and they've never caught on commercially. The original AR15 hyper custom house for competition ARs, JP Enterprises, used to offer a VERY high end side charger, and even they abandoned it. By contrast, in less time in the market place, every single issue with piston adaptations to the AR platform have been surmounted and addressed in one manner or another to the point where a drop in kit is available from a dozen manufacturers and even the average Billy Bob can install one and have a lifetime of trouble free shooting. If you decide on the BCA side charger (and I'm NOT saying "don't". Please do what makes you happy), based on personal and professional experience, here are my top 10 recommendations of things to have handy long term: 1. A box/100 of replacement handle screws from McMaster-Carr 2. A torque screw driver and the proper hex bit for the bolt handle screws 3. A healthy respect for 'just enough torque'. Check early, check often 4. A replacement bolt handle. Maybe two if you're the type that likes to repeat certain lessons 5. A healthy relationship with a GOOD machinist to remove the stubs of broken bolt handle screws (see #1) 6. Money for #5 7. Preparation for being charged double THIS TIME because you used loctite/rockset on #1 and/or didn't use #2/3 and the bolt handle bolt broke again and #5 is really pissed at the added aggravation 8. An expectation that it's gimicky and that it will not be as reliable or durable as a conventional configuration 9. An expectation that I might be wrong about all of this 10. A pre-purchased replacement upper and bolt carrier for when you realize #9 is a joke and two years later of messing with it you're finally ready to swap that otherwise great barrel over to something more reliable There's a reason why only one third tier manufacturer is currently offering these things, EVEN in this HYPER gun market where even 3rd tier guys are selling out to bare walls............... As always, YMMV You and Johnny have convinced me not to go the side charging route. #### rfjustin ##### Well-Known Member I was packing up a VP9, Ruger Ranch 5.56, and an a soon to be SBR to take the range this weekend. Feeling super guilty that I plan to blow like 500 bucks (current market value) on 9 and 5.56 ammo. Never thought I would see the day that 9mm cost as much if not more than 5.56/.223. Still need the group therapy regardless. #### Banzai88 ##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed TRF Supporter You and Johnny have convinced me not to go the side charging route. There are good ones out there, but they're not new. I haven't seen a NIB or NOS FAL side charging AR upper/bolt carrier in a long time, and even then they were$500 for a naked upper and bolt carrier in an era of $750 top line COMPLETE Bushmaster ready to shoot AR15s . If you're going to go side charger, a FAL style is the one that you want. It's the only design that doesn't do something gimicky that makes things run funky (like a conventional side reciprocating handle or that uber wacky faux side charger Devil Dog Concepts thingy). #### beeblebrox ##### 8 C6-0, 12 D11-9, 20 D20-0, 20 E5-0, 3 Cinerocs The ONLY AR side chargers that ever worked well and consistently were the ones that were purpose built to have a non-reciprocating handle on the left side of the upper and used a modified FAL style folding charging handle and a proprietary matching bolt carrier. The extra weight of the reciprocating bolt handle does funny things to the carrier (that was never designed to have a weight hanging off the right side of it). The handle bolt comes loose, causing the jiggling handle to throw off bolt timing some, and ultimately bending/breaking the bolt handle bolt off in the carrier. Sometimes when this happens the bolt handle will depart the flight pattern out into parts unknown. I know everyone in my area that has one (including myself), because sooner or later they all come across the gunsmith logs for some issue or another related to it. Side charging AR uppers have been around loooooooooonnnnnngggg before piston uppers were ever a 'thing'. In all that time, they've never really figured them out from a strong engineering stand point and they've never caught on commercially. The original AR15 hyper custom house for competition ARs, JP Enterprises, used to offer a VERY high end side charger, and even they abandoned it. By contrast, in less time in the market place, every single issue with piston adaptations to the AR platform have been surmounted and addressed in one manner or another to the point where a drop in kit is available from a dozen manufacturers and even the average Billy Bob can install one and have a lifetime of trouble free shooting. If you decide on the BCA side charger (and I'm NOT saying "don't". Please do what makes you happy), based on personal and professional experience, here are my top 10 recommendations of things to have handy long term: 1. A box/100 of replacement handle screws from McMaster-Carr 2. A torque screw driver and the proper hex bit for the bolt handle screws 3. A healthy respect for 'just enough torque'. Check early, check often 4. A replacement bolt handle. Maybe two if you're the type that likes to repeat certain lessons 5. A healthy relationship with a GOOD machinist to remove the stubs of broken bolt handle screws (see #1) 6. Money for #5 7. Preparation for being charged double THIS TIME because you used loctite/rockset on #1 and/or didn't use #2/3 and the bolt handle bolt broke again and #5 is really pissed at the added aggravation 8. An expectation that it's gimicky and that it will not be as reliable or durable as a conventional configuration 9. An expectation that I might be wrong about all of this 10. A pre-purchased replacement upper and bolt carrier for when you realize #9 is a joke and two years later of messing with it you're finally ready to swap that otherwise great barrel over to something more reliable There's a reason why only one third tier manufacturer is currently offering these things, EVEN in this HYPER gun market where even 3rd tier guys are selling out to bare walls............... As always, YMMV That is good info indeed, but Brownells has come out with this unit that is most excellent. It is reliable easy to clean and the bolt lever isn't screwed on, it cannot come apart the way it is designed. I love it. the only thing that would be better is a left handed version... #### rfjustin ##### Well-Known Member Single round mag changeover drills today. Nothing heavy, but still great to get out on a beautiful day. #### Nytrunner ##### Pop lugs, not drugs TRF Supporter Watching youtube while folding laundry, the Taofledermaus crew did a comparison of the FK BRNO 7.5mm vs 9mm Looks like a hard hitter. Anyone have firsthand experience with it? #### rfjustin ##### Well-Known Member You can get the blue fingerprint cards for free from the ATF web site. They'll send them to you in about a week. The form is FD-258. Note, red fingerprint cards are used when you get arrested and they fingerprint you to confirm your identity. You can't use red cards for ATF processing! A fingerprint ink pad is less than$10 at your local office supply or Amazon.

There is zero requirement that the police or anyone else do the fingerprints. As long as they're clear, and the card is filled out properly, it's all good. I've been doing my own fingerprints for over a decade, never one single issue. There are plenty of online guides on the proper codes to use in the various blocks.

In the case of a Form 1, you put the cover letter with your 2 completely filled out blue fingerprint cards in a properly addressed envelope, send it off by your favorite method, and sit back and wait for the approval email that has your paperwork. Print 1 color copy to put in the safe. Print 1 copy to keep with the item for idiot range Nazis and uninformed LEOs, as you'll likely encounter both (but there is no law requiring you to have it with you......only that it be available for inspection by appointment during normal business hours).View attachment 438115
Some FD-258 forms and ink pad should be in my mailbox this afternoon, thanks again for all the info!