# GUNS & ROCKETS

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#### tmacklin

##### Well-Known Member
Guns & Rockets? It should come as no surprise that these two things cause fear and trepidation among many people. Hardly a day goes by without horror stories being told in excruciating detail about the ghastly things inflicted upon people by use of these things...mans' inhumanity to man. Ever hear of Gaza or Ferguson, MO? Guns and rockets are nothing more than technological devices which are neither good nor evil until activated by man. But, apparently, it's much easier to demonize inanimate objects than mans' motives. Until man understands and implements Christ's great command to love one another, nothing will change, period.

#### AHansom

##### Well-Known Member
How do you start the process of safely owning a decent handgun and keep proficient for fun and recreation?.
Just around the corner from you is a place that has the training and several types of guns to tryout.

http://laxrange.com/

#### Pem Tech

##### Well-Known Member
Me no gots weapons.... But lets say the world's gone plum damn crazy and everyone is super nice to everyone else... so everyone gives up all their weapons. (I said the world is plum nuts... you as well.)

Then they are allowed ONE weapon 'just in case.... '

What would it be? Hand gun? Rifle? Which? Why?

Please be reasonable. No mortars and M60s... those are 'like'... NOT reasonable.
But beyond that any pistol, or rifle, or assault weapon is fair game. Money no object. But you'll only get a certain supply of ammo after which you have to buy your own at todays prices.

Ok you can have a one of each.
Now what?
With the "One of Each" clause added the choice is much easer. I love my XD-S .45 and it has performed flawlessly since the first trigger pull but if I had to choose one pistol for everything if would have to be a Ruger Mark-II .22 lr with the 4.5 inch bull-barrel. The one I had in my youth would function flawlessly with any .22 lr ammo and required little maintenance. It would be perfect for pest control and putting meat in the pot. A suppressor would be nice for any covert work.
As for a single rifle, oh boy, that is a bit tougher. Love the AR-15 platform, light, user friendly, low recoil for quick follow-up shots but IMHO the 5.56x45 caliber would be inadequate for larger game or long distant work. (Yes, I will be scorned and criticized for those comments but it is my opinion so neener. ) Also I am a huge fan of full bore Battle Rifles so I would go with the FAL in 7.62x51. She is heavy but has the reliability, punch and range for any shooting I would do, defensive or otherwise. The SCAR in 7.62x51 could be a choice as well I have no experience handling the rifle.

#### Alethins

##### Well-Known Member
According to Agenda 21 plum nuts isn't that far off the mark... Except that no one would be allowed to have any firearm... If your scenario happened I'd just break the law and have whatever I want anyways....

#### DizWolf

##### Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with all of this

For the sake of being "prepared" a .22LR, say a Ruger 10-22 would be the cat's pajama's. Good for hunting, putting food on the table, and in a pinch self-defense.
I need to get a barrel on this guy...

For the sake of being able to defend oneself from "danger" an ARmalite-15 style rifle would be hard to beat although a case could be made for a 12 gauge shotgun. Either could also be used for hunting purposes.
One gun, three barrels(also have a 26" vent rib w/screw in chokes), many uses. Nothing like a 12 gauge.

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#### AHansom

##### Well-Known Member
Me no gots weapons.... But lets say the world's gone plum damn crazy and everyone is super nice to everyone else... so everyone gives up all their weapons. (I said the world is plum nuts... you as well.)

Then they are allowed ONE weapon 'just in case.... '

What would it be? Hand gun? Rifle? Which? Why?

Please be reasonable. No mortars and M60s... those are 'like'... NOT reasonable.
But beyond that any pistol, or rifle, or assault weapon is fair game. Money no object. But you'll only get a certain supply of ammo after which you have to buy your own at todays prices.

Ok you can have a one of each.
Now what?
Strange, I never think of my guns as weapons or needing them for protection. I have several guns all locked in safe and it would take me close to 10 minuets to open the safe get the gun I want out and then go to the garage and dig through the ammo to find the right caliber. So for home defense there kind of useless. I have never carried a gun when sailing,backpacking or traveling so there not used for defense there either. Like rocketry there are many subcultures to the hobby. I enjoy reloading and gunsmithing to make a gun shoot as accurately as possible. Heres my protection when i'm anchored out in the panga infested Channel Islands

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#### AHansom

##### Well-Known Member
Anyway does this count as one gun????

JDJ 375 in case there's a elephant attack
6MM Bullberry Awesome silhouette shooter
223 Rem. Just fun long range plinking

And my favorite one is a Winchester model 42 Skeet with a custom walnut stock

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#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
I tend to agree with all of this

I need to get a barrel on this guy...

One gun, three barrels(also have a 26" vent rib w/screw in chokes), many uses. Nothing like a 12 gauge.

For the 10/22 I highly recommend Clark 22" if you want a good Heavy. .34" best 5 Shot Cold Barrel Group from BR @50yds. for the one I put together with that Barrel. Only $200 or so from Brownells. #### AHansom ##### Well-Known Member The U.S. Government was'nt very alarmed. Infact, they usually made me carry and use a pretty large Gun. And you're right about one thing. They are good for Killin'. Have a nice Day. Nice way to kill a troll!!! Last edited: #### DizWolf ##### Well-Known Member For the 10/22 I highly recommend Clark 22" if you want a good Heavy. .34" best 5 Shot Cold Barrel Group from BR @50yds. for the one I put together with that Barrel. Only$200 or so from Brownells.
Thanks for the tip. It'll be awhile, but I'm still trying to check stuff out. Been leaning towards a volquartzen muzzle weighted, but only because I'm lazy and don't want to cut out the stock. I should probably get past that.

#### DizWolf

##### Well-Known Member
Big guys always get stuck humping the squad weapons.

Mine was an M60.
Huh...so my father wasn't making it up... (he reported the same ... phenomenon though he preferred it, being a lefty)

#### matthew

##### Optimistic Pessimist
I prefer older era stuff. My most modern gun is a Colt 1911 Railgun in .22LR that I bought as a plinker for Ten Pin matches before committee meetings. I spend waaay more money on ammo than I do on rocket motors every year. Old guns are a hoot!
Yes, that's me.

#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
Thanks for the tip. It'll be awhile, but I'm still trying to check stuff out. Been leaning towards a volquartzen muzzle weighted, but only because I'm lazy and don't want to cut out the stock. I should probably get past that.

Also recommend Glass Bedding the Action and the first one Inch of the Barrel.

#### cherokeej

##### Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with all of this

I need to get a barrel on this guy...
Have you considered getting a Fajen Aristocrat? Nice stock for reasonable $. Add a .920" barrel, and just drop it in. Lot easier than opening up the barrel channel in that carbine stock. And don't forget the Volquartsen trigger parts. They make a world of difference in that rifle. #### DizWolf ##### Well-Known Member And don't forget the Volquartsen trigger parts. They make a world of difference in that rifle. You're right, it was like a whole new gun. As for the stock, bedding, better scope, etc.... I've always been torn between going balls to the wall, and seeing what I can get out of it for as little as possible. If I replaced everything I wanted to, I'd have an entire rifle in the tear-off box. From the bipod it does a reasonable job at 50 yards with CCI mini mags. I'm still trying to tighten up with the 11-87. offhand @ 50 yards (remmington accutips, 21" rifled barrel) I'm good enough to take a deer, but still not great- #### n3tjm ##### Papa Elf To compliment the semi-auto pistol, I wanted a nice "wheel gun" I found this nice Taurus Model 82 in 38 Special. She is a security turn in, so I picked it up for less than$200. Save for a small blemish on the bluing, this revolver is like new!

Although I originally considered concealed carry for any one of the two handguns I own... I decided to just shoot for fun... much less of a burden to bear (for me).
That looks almost exactly like my Taurus .357 .

I just recently got it back from Taurus. Had to send it in because it injured my brother. Was at my cousins house in KY, and my second cousin was shooting it, and it shot bullet fragments out the side striking my brother in the back. The injury was minor but of course I wanted to get the problem fixed. About three months later I got the gun back, and turns out the forcing cone was undersized.

#### Pem Tech

##### Well-Known Member
Anyway does this count as one gun????

JDJ 375 in case there's a elephant attack
6MM Bullberry Awesome silhouette shooter
223 Rem. Just fun long range plinking

And my favorite one is a Winchester model 42 Skeet with a custom walnut stock
Oh, that is some beautiful wood you got there.

#### RocketGeekInFL

##### Well-Known Member

Just some flint locks I have.

#### cherokeej

##### Well-Known Member
You're right, it was like a whole new gun.

As for the stock, bedding, better scope, etc.... I've always been torn between going balls to the wall, and seeing what I can get out of it for as little as possible. If I replaced everything I wanted to, I'd have an entire rifle in the tear-off box.

From the bipod it does a reasonable job at 50 yards with CCI mini mags.

I'm still trying to tighten up with the 11-87. offhand @ 50 yards (remmington accutips, 21" rifled barrel) I'm good enough to take a deer, but still not great-
Can I suggest getting a match barrel for the 10-22? That looks like 2+ MOA. I get sub-MOA from a barrel by Shilen, shooting from bags. And surprisingly enough, it loves 40 grain Mini-Mags. :surprised:

And if you're doing that with the 11-87... Meat in the freezer, brother. And ain't that what that one's about?

As for the earlier posts about only one firearm... That just doesn't work. Right tool for the job. You don't plink pests with a 270 Winchester, and trying to take a wapiti with a 10-22 simply will not work.

Besides... I already own 'em. And I want more. :lol:

#### DizWolf

##### Well-Known Member
Can I suggest getting a match barrel for the 10-22? That looks like 2+ MOA. I get sub-MOA from a barrel by Shilen, shooting from bags. And surprisingly enough, it loves 40 grain Mini-Mags. :surprised:
I've been looking at this to just drop in - https://www.volquartsen.com/products/541-stainless-muzzle-weighted-barrel

And if you're doing that with the 11-87... Meat in the freezer, brother. And ain't that what that one's about?
I'm quite happy at 50 yards, but the Remington Accutips and Hornady SST claim accuracy out to 200 yards. I'm very happy with the setup, I just need to do my part better before I'd take a shot past 50. Luckily that's mostly moot, it's not likely I'd get a clear shot that far in the woods anyways.

As for the earlier posts about only one firearm... That just doesn't work. Right tool for the job. You don't plink pests with a 270 Winchester, and trying to take a wapiti with a 10-22 simply will not work.
Besides... I already own 'em. And I want more. :lol:
They make 20 gun safes for a reason

#### cherokeej

##### Well-Known Member
That'll work. Match barrel for a carbine stock.

Anywhere the 11-87 would be an appropriate choice, you'll hammer what you're after. Don't need micro-groups from a utility type weapon. If you can hit a pie plate, you'll put meat in the freezer.

#### legranddudu

##### Well-Known Member
by personal record so far... 25 yeards, 15 rounds, 144 points, staying, 2 hands... Heckler und Koch USP Elite, 6" barrel, 9mm

very hugly gun, extremly precise and reliable.

#### cherokeej

##### Well-Known Member
That there is some mighty fine shootin'!

#### karlbaum

##### Well-Known Member
Okay, here's an view from one of those terrible "not a fan of guns" types:

It's likely no secret that I'm not exactly a gun-fan. Yes, feel free to "go figure" all you want. It is what it is.

This is a rocketry forum. We ALL like rockets, yes? Let's talk about them. A lot. Let's share and discuss and show off and learn about and ask question about and post pics/videos of etc. - about rockets.

Sure, lots of other subjects creep in now and then - motorcycles, movies, food, jokes, etc. And that's all well and good to a point. I've seen lots of other topical forums get completely inundated with off-topic subjects to the point where those forums become useless. Thank goodness TRF isn't one of those. I don't mind the odd discussion on topics like those noted above now and then - it's fine in small amounts. Lots of "off-topic" discussions around here involve subjects that I care nothing about myself, and that I even actively dislike on occasion - but the majority of the time it's simply no big deal, and I just ignore it.

But let's not pretend that all off-topic subjects carry the same "weight". Religion and politics are two that most have the good sense enough to recognize as danger zones. There's a reason that those topics are generally and/or specifically restricted. I absolutely guarantee that quite a few of you would be extremely offended by some of the things I might post on these subjects. Which is why I restrain myself from doing so (or at least try to).

Like it or not, but guns are in that same category. If you really believe that guns are "just another hobby" like say cooking, photography, or whatnot, you might need to rethink things. Guns are an EXTREMELY "loaded" topic (pun intended), and there are quite a few "anti-gun" people (with valid viewpoints) that are quite as passionate in their feelings/beliefs/opinions as those of you who truly love the hobby. I honestly doubt you would ever find someone being truly and reasonably offended by someone posting something about photography or stamp collecting. Sorry gun folk, but that is simply the way it is. This is very serious, and invalidating and/or insulting people who don't share your love of guns is ignorant at best - as far as what it is "at worst", I'll refrain from saying so in the interests of keeping things civil.

And we simply don't need a gun sub-forum here. We just don't.

So, gun folk. Please feel free to share your hobby and passion all you want. Post your stories, cool acquisitions, questions and answers, etc. etc., about guns all you want. Indulge to your heart's content. But please do it someplace else beside this ROCKETRY forum. There are countless places for you to go and be with those that share your views. Go there are enjoy yourselves. Let's keep this place about rockets.

s6
Stealth you have made some very good points. But I do think that off topics have a place in the "watering hole". I am a gun owner and I really don't visit Rocketry Planet to discuss guns. However I am wondering if there could be some REAL debate outside of typical gun forums or anti gun forums. It seems that those would be loaded with like minded people so is there any real debate? I am tired of the same old rhetoric. I am somewhat disheartened with the NRA response after mass shootings and have left for that reason. I do think there is a place for responsible gun ownership but there has to be laws that reasonably set guidelines in order to protect the innocent. I am open to any reasonable debate on the subject.

#### o1d_dude

##### 'I battle gravity'
by personal record so far... 25 yeards, 15 rounds, 144 points, staying, 2 hands... Heckler und Koch USP Elite, 6" barrel, 9mm

very hugly gun, extremly precise and reliable.

View attachment 183255
25 meters and all on a paper plate? Nice shooting, Denis.

#### o1d_dude

##### 'I battle gravity'
Lotta good stuff in that video clip, PapaElf.

Jess is using a two-handed grip with crossed thumbs for recoil control on the revolver. A .357 will make its presence felt.
Isn't it funny how in most shooting videos, the shooter is all smiles?

Kinda like a rocketeer watching his bird boost off into the wild blue yonder.

#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
Lotta good stuff in that video clip, PapaElf.

Jess is using a two-handed grip with crossed thumbs for recoil control on the revolver. A .357 will make its presence felt.
Isn't it funny how in most shooting videos, the shooter is all smiles?

Kinda like a rocketeer watching his bird boost off into the wild blue yonder.
But she's leaning back, and not into the Recoil. I hate seeing shooters get taught the wrong way to shoot, especially with Revolvers or Pistols, as those are for Defensive Purposes, the most important/critical type of Firearms Use.
Heck, even the girl to her right is being taught wrong.
Look up the Weaver Stance.
I recommend getting some Books and Videos by this Guy if you or anyone you love is serious about using a Handgun for Self-Defense.

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#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
And here's a good Instructional Video by Jerry Miculek:

#### n3tjm

##### Papa Elf
Well I told her several times her stance was wrong, but I was more concerned where here hands were. I know some instructors physically adjust their students posture, but I am not an instructor, and she is a friend of my ex-gf... LOL

#### o1d_dude

##### 'I battle gravity'
My package from Amazon arrived today.

Howard Leight Impact Sport Electronic Muffs...Sweet!

Now I can park the 3M Peltor muffs next to the lawnmower and chainsaw.