Gunpowder Residue

[Jonsayler]

Has anyone one tried using duct seal or fire putty to protect their ebay lids from gun power residue? I can see how it won't take many flight for wires and connectors to start to deteriorate.

 

[justforfun]

I have used aluminum tape. Most times I just cover the connector block.

Roy

 

[cls]

I run speaker wire (#22 or #24 stranded) through a hole in the bulkhead, and seal that with silicone.

I figure the terminal blocks are sacrificial anyway, just plan to replace them every few flights. I've tried covering them with different tapes, but nothing works forever.

Knowing that, and being as lazy as I am, now I just twist all the wires. Terminal blocks represent 4x connections that can fail...

 

[Handeman]

I had 50 flights over 8 years on one rocket with the white terminal blocks and no protection on anything. I never cleaned anything or did anything to remove the residue Never had an issue with anything concerning the residue. There was a LOT of residue. I did replace the electrical tape protecting the nylon shock cord once, but that wasn't much of any issue either.

I think the BP residue is more of an aesthetic issue than a functional issue. My suggestion is don't get wrapped around the axel on that.

 

[manixFan]

I use blue painters tape to cover areas of the bulkhead I want to protect. It has worked well and is easy to remove.


Tony

 

[farsidius]

Masking tape is your friend for this. I use it to cover the lid, wingnuts, the terminals, wires, antennas, etc... I even wrap it around the first 10 to 12 inches of the kevlar harnesses. It's fantastically fire and flame resistant. When done with your flight it peels right off without leaving any adhesive residue. It's a cheap way to keep your hardware and ebay lids clean.

 

[Tim51]

Depending on the brand I have found some of the plastic terminal blocks perish over time, and I assume the BP residue / hot gases are responsible for this. Of course, you can internalise all the connections behind the Av bay bulkplates to avoid this, but I've never done that. As @farsidius and @manixFan suggest, a strip or two of masking tape folded over the terminals is the most protection I've ever used.
I clean up post flight residue with babywipes. What they don't remove, I'm happy to live with.

 

[mrwalsh85]

...It's fantastically fire and flame resistant.

...until it actually gets on fire. I used to chain fireworks fuse together by using masking tape... Once it lit, it burned and had a good enough flame to light other fuses. But in our case, the flame is extinguished very quickly that it wont ignite the tape.

 

[manixFan]

...until it actually gets on fire. I used to chain fireworks fuse together by using masking tape... Once it lit, it burned and had a good enough flame to light other fuses. But in our case, the flame is extinguished very quickly that it wont ignite the tape.

I've been using blue tape for years without it ever once catching fire. But it sounds like you are saying exactly that – if it's used to protect surfaces that makes it unlikely to ignite. But I guess it never hurts to point out that it could burn if not used properly.

For larger rockets I am considering moving over to CO2 ejection systems. I've seen them action enough times to finally be convinced they are worth the expense. But for the small stuff, we seem to still be stuck with using an energetic gas generating powder of some sort.


Tony

 

[Kabulrocks]

Noob question- Are any of the black powder substitutes, like Pyrodex or 777 used in rocket ejection systems? I know for BP flintlock guns, real BP is required to get the gun to fire from the spark of the flint. I’m not familiar with the dual deployment systems and what they need to function properly. Thanks!

 

[Handeman]

Noob question- Are any of the black powder substitutes, like Pyrodex or 777 used in rocket ejection systems? I know for BP flintlock guns, real BP is required to get the gun to fire from the spark of the flint. I’m not familiar with the dual deployment systems and what they need to function properly. Thanks!

The BP substitutes are similar to BP in the high pressures in the chamber of a gun, but don't burn/explode like BP under no/low pressure like in ejection charges where you are trying to generate a large volume of relatively low pressure gas. Some people have good luck with them in ejection systems, but they require much better containment of the charge than BP in order to work. You have a much large margin of error.
If you are going to use them, ground test, ground test, ground test, and ground test.

 

[Maxwelljets]

Noob question- Are any of the black powder substitutes, like Pyrodex or 777 used in rocket ejection systems? I know for BP flintlock guns, real BP is required to get the gun to fire from the spark of the flint. I’m not familiar with the dual deployment systems and what they need to function properly. Thanks!

I've used triple 7 quite a bit, and I've found it to work quite well. It's not as hard to use as many people make it seem. Generally the way I make my charges involves taking the cut off finger of a latex or nitrile glove, adding the desired amount of powder, putting in the ematch, zip tying it closed, and then wrapping the section that contains the powder with enough electrical tape that it feels hard to the touch and no longer squishy at all. The ematches used to light ejection charges have more than enough oomph to light BP substitutes directly.

I've done tests of various charge containment methods where I set off the charge inside of a clear plastic rubbermaid tub, then collect any unburned powder and weigh it to determine how much of the charge actually burned. Without good confinement (e.g. glove fingertip charges without the electrical tape wrap), even true black powder occasionally left some unburnt powder in the tub, though there was certainly much less of it than when the same test is conducted with triple 7. Once the charge is wrapped with tape though, there's no unburned powder with either true BP or with triple 7.

 

[cls]

I've done tests of various charge containment methods where I set off the charge inside of a clear plastic rubbermaid tub, ...

That is very cool! Practical science right there. Have you considered writing it for a NAR R&D project?

 

[Kabulrocks]

Thanks for the info! As someone who also shoots BP guns (no in-lines tho), I am looking forward to the Estes Goex powder being available again, probably this summer. Should I try dual deployment systems in rockets, I’ll go for BP.

 

[Maxwelljets]

That is very cool! Practical science right there. Have you considered writing it for a NAR R&D project?

Now that you've put the thought in my head I might...

Odds are good I'd just post the document publicly rather than put it exclusively in the NAR R&D reports. Time to add yet one more project to the to do list.

 

[Dan Griffing]

Noob question- Are any of the black powder substitutes, like Pyrodex or 777 used in rocket ejection systems? I know for BP flintlock guns, real BP is required to get the gun to fire from the spark of the flint. I’m not familiar with the dual deployment systems and what they need to function properly. Thanks!

The BP substitutes are similar to BP in the high pressures in the chamber of a gun, but don't burn/explode like BP under no/low pressure like in ejection charges where you are trying to generate a large volume of relatively low pressure gas. Some people have good luck with them in ejection systems, but they require much better containment of the charge than BP in order to work. You have a much large margin of error.
If you are going to use them, ground test, ground test, ground test, and ground test.

Recently I’ve been using Hodgdon’s Triple Se7en clean muzzleloading propellant with my Wildman Extreme rocket. But I’ve also been using a fiberglass piston for both the drogue and main chutes. I’ve had one successful launch and half a dozen ground tests and am completely satisfied with the Triple Se7en and pistons.

There’s no sulfur or charcoal residue, the cleanup only needs soap and water, and with the pistons I only need 1 gram of propellant to get a very energetic parachute deployment, and without needing any flame protection or need to keep my parachutes or shock cords clean.

 

[Dan Griffing]

Recently I’ve been using Hodgdon’s Triple Se7en clean muzzleloading propellant with my Wildman Extreme rocket. But I’ve also been using a fiberglass piston for both the drogue and main chutes. I’ve had one successful launch and half a dozen ground tests and am completely satisfied with the Triple Se7en and pistons.

There’s no sulfur or charcoal residue, the cleanup only needs soap and water, and with the pistons I only need 1 gram of propellant to get a very energetic parachute deployment, and without needing any flame protection or need to keep my parachutes or shock cords clean.

Recently I’ve been using Hodgdon’s Triple Se7en clean muzzleloading propellant with my Wildman Extreme rocket. But I’ve also been using a fiberglass piston for both the drogue and main chutes. I’ve had one successful launch and half a dozen ground tests and am completely satisfied with the Triple Se7en and pistons.

There’s no sulfur or charcoal residue, the cleanup only needs soap and water, and with the pistons I only need 1 gram of propellant to get a very energetic parachute deployment, and without needing any flame protection or need to keep my parachutes or shock cords clean.

I’m also using Additive Aerospace’s aluminum ejection canisters that use polyethylene water bottle caps to hold in the ejection powder until sufficient pressure builds up. I initially installed the larger 3-6 gram size canisters, thinking that I would need a larger amount of BP and I pack “dog barf” on top of the Triple Se7en to fill in the void space.

 

[Art Upton]

In my experience with both types of powders, if you can get BP use BP; it's more reliable. I use it in my Remington 1858 cap and ball pistol replica instead of the others.

In my ground tests of 7 and Pryrodex, I used spend ammo brass with the primer removed and the "starter" wires run thru that hole and epoxied off. It worked when both ends were sealed, but I trusted BP more. I think I put a dab of hot glue on the other end of the brass shell but I can't remember.

One thing I just remembered I used too much of the 7 powder and the charge blew a hole in the side of the test chute tube.

 

[pathtouch]

Noob question- Are any of the black powder substitutes, like Pyrodex or 777 used in rocket ejection systems? I know for BP flintlock guns, real BP is required to get the gun to fire from the spark of the flint. I’m not familiar with the dual deployment systems and what they need to function properly. Thanks!

Since there’s a shortage in Black Powder I’ve used 777 these past two years. I use 1/2” copper plumbing charge wells. Put your e-match on top, so the flame front travels downward toward containment and it’s less likely to throw unburnt powder outward. Cover that with dog barf and tape. The key is definitely containment, I make four X’s out of masking tape strips (8 layers), and after each X go around the perimeter with a layer of masking tape.
It still has some slower burning embers so make sure your chutes are packed really well in nomex.

It’s cumbersome so I’ll probably switch to FFFFg black powder once I can make a trip to Maine Powder House to avoid hazmat shipping. No local sporting goods store have it in stock. 777 is everywhere though.

 

[Dan Griffing]

Since there’s a shortage in Black Powder I’ve used 777 these past two years. I use 1/2” copper plumbing charge wells. Put your e-match on top, so the flame front travels downward toward containment and it’s less likely to throw unburnt powder outward. Cover that with dog barf and tape. The key is definitely containment, I make four X’s out of masking tape strips (8 layers), and after each X go around the perimeter with a layer of masking tape.
It still has some slower burning embers so make sure your chutes are packed really well in nomex.

It’s cumbersome so I’ll probably switch to FFFFg black powder once I can make a trip to Maine Powder House to avoid hazmat shipping. No local sporting goods store have it in stock. 777 is everywhere though.

View attachment 582843

I use aluminum charge wells by Additive Aerospace that use polyethylene water bottle caps to hold in the pressure. Always a uniform pressure release. I’m using pistons to isolate the combustion products from the parachute and shock cords and couldn’t be happier with how much cleaner FFFG Triple Seven is compared with black powder. And its 18 percent more powerful too. With pistons there’s no more need to wrap everything with Nomex to prevent flame damage

 

[pathtouch]

I use aluminum charge wells by Additive Aerospace that use polyethylene water bottle caps to hold in the pressure. Always a uniform pressure release. I’m using pistons to isolate the combustion products from the parachute and shock cords and couldn’t be happier with how much cleaner FFFG Triple Seven is compared with black powder. And its 18 percent more powerful too. With pistons there’s no more need to wrap everything with Nomex to prevent flame damage

Wow for $8 those are pretty slick looking.