Good first rocket for L1 Certification...

Discussion in 'High Power Rocketry (HPR)' started by ewomack, Nov 11, 2019 at 2:51 AM.

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  1. Nov 11, 2019 at 2:51 AM #1

    ewomack

    ewomack

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    Hello, I've been "practicing" in low power for a few months now and I'd like to start thinking about HPR.

    I've heard that MadCow's Super DX3 is a good newcomer rocket for L1 and L2 certification.

    Thoughts? Does anyone have other suggestions? I'm just collecting some data here as I start down this road.
     
  2. Nov 11, 2019 at 3:01 AM #2

    solid_fuel

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    Find a 3” ish Fiberglas Kit you like. Or a 3-4” ish paper and wood kit you like. I used a 2.6” fiberglass Nike Smoke from Madcow because I like the Nike Smoke. Also the fins that don’t extend past the end of the body tube are less apt to break off on landing. You don’t need dual deploy or electronics or a chute release or reloadable motors or whatever. You can use all that if you’re used to using it but unnecessary complicated cert attempts leave more things to go wrong.
     
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  3. Nov 11, 2019 at 3:09 AM #3

    dhbarr

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    I just like to preach the good word of the H-97 -- nice, soft, & smokey.
     
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  4. Nov 11, 2019 at 3:23 AM #4

    Chad

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    I did my L1 and L2 on the same cardboard super dx3 with the 54 mm motor mount. For L1, I used an aeropack 38mm adapter and an H100 motor (single deploy via motor delay). L2 was a J250 and stratologger dual deploy.

    To me, the 4 inch body tube is great for HP beginners because you can easily fit your hand all the way inside. Also, the madcow quarter inch fins are meaty and forgiving. They're long with a short'ish span so lots of bonding surface area and they're not going to break easily.
     
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  5. Nov 11, 2019 at 3:54 AM #5

    Cameron Anderson

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    Did my first L1 on a LOC Lil Nuke and an H97. Did my second L1 and my first L2 on an extended PML Intruder set up for dual deploy. It recommend the Intruder in quantum tubing. You can't kill the thing.
     
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  6. Nov 11, 2019 at 3:22 PM #6

    Nathan

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    A cardboard Madcow Super DX3 is a perfect rocket for L1 certification. Here's the one I used for my L1 certification, 6 years ago . . .

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Nov 11, 2019 at 3:27 PM #7

    DAllen

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    Frankly I think we need to know a little more about what you want to build. What tickles your fancy as it were because there are so many options out there. What kind of materials you like to build with, your budget, etc.
     
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  8. Nov 11, 2019 at 3:28 PM #8

    Scott Hala

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    I did my L1 in July with a LOC/Precision LOC IV.

    FB_IMG_1564589832582.jpg
     
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  9. Nov 11, 2019 at 4:05 PM #9

    tomsteve

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    loc mini magg with 54mmt . it flies great on many h and i motors.
    then add a section of bt for l2.
    a j90 in it in standard size is a wicked cool flight,too.
     
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  10. Nov 11, 2019 at 4:17 PM #10

    boatgeek

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    If you haven't done much F and G flying, I'd recommend a 29mm motor mount. Somewhere 54mm to 3" body diameter is good. Cardboard is fine, and will allow you to fly a pretty full range of F and G motors before you step up to H. You'll be able to do low park flying on msaller motors and kick up to bigger ones at larger sites.

    If you've been flying F and G already, then a 38mm motor mount is a good choice, probably in a 3" or 4" body diameter. That will easily get you up into H and I territory as well as a few baby Js if you want to go L2. Personally, I wouldn't go to a 54mm motor mount because you will find out things you'd change on your first L1 capable rocket. That's part of the learning process, but you don't necessarily want to have a rocket that's looking at you asking for a K load when you're not sure it'll take it. :)

    Other than motor mount and body diameter, it's all down to whatever aesthetics you like. Fins that hang way back or have lots of fiddly bits will be much more prone to breaking off and messing up your cert flight.
     
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  11. Nov 11, 2019 at 4:43 PM #11

    Serac

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    You'll get lots of opinions because there are lots of great choices. I was wanting to get the DX3. But it was out of stock at the time, and I ended up going with the Apogee Zephyr instead. I definitely recommend the Zephyr. But, it is a 38mm motor mount, so options for a L-2 motor are limited. If you are set on a dual L-1, and L-2 rocket, then get a 54mm mount to have the flexibility.

    Honestly, after your L-1, you'll want to build another rocket. You will have learned some during construction of your first rocket, and you'll be excited after certifying and want to do a build, anyway. I would plan on two rockets for L-1 and L-2.
     
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  12. Nov 11, 2019 at 4:48 PM #12

    grouch

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    If you like the DX3 then just go that route. The biggest thing to determine is if your field can handle what you want to fly. Things like the DX3 and the Loc 4 can fly well on G's if you regularly fly at smaller fields yet still fly very well on H's and I's if you have the recovery area. Have fun and enjoy the ride.
     
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  13. Nov 11, 2019 at 5:12 PM #13

    Forever_Metal

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    Good advice given... It all depends on budget, time, and what looks cool to you.

    If you have a few $$, f-glass is a great way to go
    I used the MC 2.6" fibre Arcas flying on an AT H100W. Straight forward assembly, flights are straight as an arrow, and it's relatively inexpensive as far as f-glass goes (as such won't break the bank if lost). Mine was hanging from a tree in TN until it was taken by someone... eh, it happens.

    If $$ in short supply (such is the case most of the time), a cardboard tube bird can be used as well.
    Example: My wife has flown her cardboard tube Estes Partizon on H's before, though there are a few mods that I'd perform; using all epoxy for the assembly, adding rail buttons, Kevlar shock cord, and a jolly logic. She'll get her L1 early next year with it (tape the nosecone for a snug fit...).

    In any case, make sure you ask any questions you may have or find as you're building. TRF and your local club are great resources.

    Don't forget to have a little fun too!

    fm

    PS. For those who would like to dual cert, the intention with the MC Arcas was to fly it on an H, I, J, baby K (if I could find one); thereby also getting my L2. It was painted frost white with pseudo starbucks green vinyl arranged to look like a SB coffee cup (FM logo instead), and instead of the content in squares, each square had a letter from H-J over it. May get another for xmas...
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019 at 5:57 PM
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  14. Nov 11, 2019 at 11:39 PM #14

    solid_fuel

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    ummm... what? she has H flights on it but not yet an L1?
     
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  15. Nov 12, 2019 at 12:06 AM #15

    bmonagle

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    I used a cardboard Super DX3 for my Level 1 and 2 certifications. L1 was on an H180, single deploy. For L2, I added an e-bay and did dual deploy on a J350. I still think it is a great rocket and it has around 24 flights on it.
     
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  16. Nov 12, 2019 at 1:56 AM #16

    K'Tesh

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    I went with a scratch build... Using Binder Design 4" tubes.

    Binder Design has several kits suitable for L1 and L2 Cert flights.
     
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  17. Nov 12, 2019 at 4:03 AM #17

    mcderek

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    Mad Cow, Binder Design, LOC, SBR all offer excellent kits that are appropriate for L1. Which one? The one that you like, that your excited about and that you will finish. Yes, that one. Have fun!
     
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  18. Nov 12, 2019 at 6:35 PM #18

    dr wogz

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    I remember being RSO and rejecting an L1 attempt. They had a big 7 lb-ish rocket on an H123 (or something like that..) It was at the lower end of marginal; either by the graph, or by the 'multiply the lbs by 17 or 25' rule..

    They seemed a little surprised at first, but I explained why, then they seemed a little sad. From what I understand they then traded in the motor for one with more "oomph" and got their cert!

    The point being.. If you're going for your L1 (or L2..) you should know what the numbers mean, and how to apply them. Then choose a suitable motor. That's why the test is there, that's why you need to "certify"..

    So, get whatever you want. But don't expect to certify with a 4" FG darkstar on an H97.. Do the math, do the sims..
     
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  19. Nov 12, 2019 at 7:30 PM #19

    SeanW78

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    I ordered a the same rocket from Discount Rocketry on Friday. Hope to hear about shipping soon so I can get to building and launching for my L1.
     
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  20. Nov 12, 2019 at 8:17 PM #20

    dr wogz

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    a Super DX3 build thread here:

    https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/madcow-super-dx3-patriot-a-build-thread.140215/

    (yes, a shameless plug! :D )

    I built mine, intended for DD practice I did do my L2 with it. I recently fixed a 3" zipper on it..

    I did my L1 with a Widlman Darkstar Jr. I now fly that routinely with an Eggtimer Quantum & Eggfinder Mini. (It has become my tracker & DD practice bird). Had it up to just under 6000' this June at URRF6!
     
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  21. Nov 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM #21

    Chad

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    yeah scratch build is def. an option too. the tricky part for me is always cutting fins (I dont have a band saw or table saw).

    Always Ready Rocketry has a "basic blues" series that's basically a scratch build. Their 4" basic blues would be a good L1 setup too. I like BlueTube because it's cheap and tough.
     
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  22. Nov 13, 2019 at 2:17 PM #22

    SeanW78

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    I just found Binder Designs yesterday. I like the idea of a kit to start with something this big and then go from there.
     
  23. Nov 13, 2019 at 4:48 PM #23

    K'Tesh

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    I don't have a band saw or table saw either. I did, however, use my scroll saw. I cut 3 blanks, glued the pattern to the top one, then drilled holes in the fin tabs and in the waste areas, and pinned them together. Next, I cut them out with the scroll saw, and sanded them (still pinned) to their final outline shape. I then unpinned them, rounded the edges, and glued them in. However, I didn't use a fin guide (I like Payloadbay.com's fin guide), and one of the fins drooped before the epoxy had set. I've used fin guides ever since.
     

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