Going to give rocketry another try...

[MichaelRapp]

Hi all,

I've always had an interest in space and rockets and six years ago, out of pure curiosity, starting playing with model rockets. I had fun, but some frustrations caused me to abandon the hobby after only a few months.

Most of my rockets were the inexpensive ready-to-fly Estes types, which, while I enjoyed learning all about rocket motors and the aerodynamic factors necessary for a stable flight, I got bored fairly quickly. I began to feel that I was just stuffing some dollar bills (the motor) up a tube and literally setting that money on fire, then watching a tube float back down to earth. Rinse, lather, repeat.

I did a few level one kits, which were challenging and enjoyable, but as I had no previous modeling experience my poor construction techniques caused the rockets to often fall apart after just a few launches.

So I shelved the hobby.

Now, with the Orion-1 test flight coming up, my interest in rocketry is resurfacing, and I can't help but think that maybe I was going about it all wrong....that is there is more than just throwing together a simple rocket in the afternoon and launching it for a minute-long flight.

I did quite a bit of web searching this afternoon and ran across Apogee Rockets' beginners tutorial on making their Avion rocket. (https://www.apogeerockets.com/How-To/Getting_Started_How_to_Build_a_Rocket) If only I had had this six years ago! I was completely ignorant of such things as fin filets, the proper way to paint a rocket, or even what sandpaper to use. Plus, that rocket looked far more challenging and interesting to put together than the quick snap-together plastic ones I had used six years ago.

So I think I'm going to give the pursuit another shot. This time also I'm going to try to hook up with a local club. There seems to be a nice one, the NASA/Houston Rocket Club, which launches at the Johnson Space Center which is just a few miles from my house.

I'm happiest when I am trying to creatively figure something out, which is probably the reason I got so bored with the RTF rockets. There nothing to figure out about them! I remember thinking I'd like to experiment with designing a rocket and scratch building it. I also remember altimeters being interesting and thinking it would be cool to keep a log how certain rockets performed in different wind and temperature conditions.

So as I said I'm going to give this another shot and see if the bug bites. One advantageous thing is that I remember where my frustration points were so that I can be on the lookout for those. I think I'll actually start with an Apogee Avion rocket so I can follow the tutorial exactly.

--Michael in Houston

 

[codysmith]

Hello and Welcome! Glad to hear you are giving the hobby another shot. Feel free to ask any questions around here as we are generally pretty helpful. You have a great plan for coming into the hobby and starting with an avion. While I don't have one, it looks like a great rocket.

 

[astronwolf]

I'm happiest when I am trying to creatively figure something out, which is probably the reason I got so bored with the RTF rockets. There nothing to figure out about them! I remember thinking I'd like to experiment with designing a rocket and scratch building it.

Hooking up with a local club is a very good thing to do, but this forum is also an excellent source of information for you. You might enjoy using rocket design and simulation software, and I recommend getting OpenRocket. Download that and see if that helps extend your creativity. Another resource worth looking at is Info Central. Lots of good, basic information can be found there.
Welcome back!

-Wolf

 

[cwbullet]

Welcome back.

 

[mikemech]

Welcome back!
After I retired my wife told me to get a hobby. (Stay out from underfoot.) When I mentioned model rockets as a possibility, she bought an Estes RTF something and a pack of 13mm motors. The rocket needed 18mm. Like you I thought, "This is no fun." Then I remembered what was fun.
The washer and drier are now in the garage and the laundry room is my rocket room. That'll teach her.

 

[scsager]

... This time also I'm going to try to hook up with a local club. There seems to be a nice one, the NASA/Houston Rocket Club, which launches at the Johnson Space Center which is just a few miles from my house.
...

It's probably an excellent idea to attend a club launch

From what I understand they launch twice a month, and you may need to let them know you are coming. Something about obtaining "clearance" for JSC.

Details >>> https://www.nasahoustonrocketclub.org/

 

[samb]

Welcome back. Yes, Yes, YES, get yourself to a club launch ASAP ! Art Applewhite provides a great service to Texas rocketeers with his Launch page: https://www.artapplewhite.com/launches.html All the launches, links, and directions. While you're there, check out his saucers and monopters.

Thanks Art !

 

[HHaase]

Michael;

Sounds like you may be interested in the NARTREK program. It's a series of progressively more complex challenges that require you to build and fly rockets to achieve specific goals. Everything from duration flights with streamers, to multi-stage and cluster launches on bigger rockets. Though many of them focus around low powered rockets, and seemingly simple tasks, it's really a lot trickier and entertaining than I expected.

-Hans

 

[MichaelRapp]

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

Yep, I've already e-mailed to be on the list for the next NHRC launch.

So I went digging around to see what remaining rocketry items I still had stashed away. I found one remaining intact rocket, a Big Bertha, the Model Rocketry Handbook, a ridiculous number of igniters, a bag of recovery wadding, and a slew of motors. How in the world did I come to have so many C6-5s?

So here's the question....are these motors still good? They've been stored in a robust fishing tackle box -- not airtight, but not flimsy either -- in my garage for about half a decade. None of the clay caps show any cracking....and none of the casings show any warping, bubbling, or discoloration, or any signs of overt moisture damage from our local humidity.

What's the likelihood these are still useable for successful launches?

--Michael in Houston

 

[samb]

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

Yep, I've already e-mailed to be on the list for the next NHRC launch.

So I went digging around to see what remaining rocketry items I still had stashed away. I found one remaining intact rocket, a Big Bertha, the Model Rocketry Handbook, a ridiculous number of igniters, a bag of recovery wadding, and a slew of motors. How in the world did I come to have so many C6-5s?

So here's the question....are these motors still good? They've been stored in a robust fishing tackle box -- not airtight, but not flimsy either -- in my garage for about half a decade. None of the clay caps show any cracking....and none of the casings show any warping, bubbling, or discoloration, or any signs of overt moisture damage from our local humidity.

What's the likelihood these are still useable for successful launches?

--Michael in Houston

I think the likelihood of those motors being useable is good. Better if still in the blister package. I would try a few in the Bertha (or a saucer ) to see how they go. My only concern would be the higher humidity you Houstonians get. Bring them to NHRC and burn'em or sell'em.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Welcome back! I think you are going to find that there are a LOT more areas of interest in rocketry than just making holes in the sky with cheapo Estes RTF rockets! You will definitely find something challenging to dig into.

The free rocket design and simulation software, OpenRocket, is a great tool --- and it's FREE! Even if you don't get straight onto scratch building or making you own designs, it's fun to use OpenRocket to simulate the flight of your rockets, figure out how the rocket will fly on different motors, find the ideal delay times, and much more. Get an inexpensive altimeter, and you can check your rocket's actual performance against the simulation --- real rocket science. And did I mention, OR is FREE! Go get a copy and then find a design file for the Avion, or any other rocket you are interested in, and check it out.

Another area is video and photography. Now you can get a nice little keychain video camera, tape it to your rocket, and get really amazing launch videos --- something that would have been much more expensive and difficult the last time you were interested in rocketry.

Then there is also mid-power and high-power (MPR and HPR)... A whole world of composite motors with different characteristics. Reloadable motors.

About the C6-5's --- Motor can keep for a very long time, but they can also go bad on you --- a lot depends on conditions. Heat cycling is not great, but from what I've heard, the worst is if they cycle to very cold temps. It also not a great idea to use them if it is very cold at the time of launch. What's the temperature cycling like where they were stored? Whenever I have motors I'm not sure about, I use them in rockets I don't care much about.

 

[BABAR]

Welcome back.
Great that you are flying with a club.
Lot's of people get tired of basic 3FNC (3 fin and nose cone) rockets, but there is enough variety to fill just about every interest and budget. Not only High Power and Mid power, but also gliders, helicopters, OddRocs (whole section of forum devoted to that), ground AND rocket based photography and video, scale modeling, competition, RC gliders, scratch building.
May want to go over Stine's book again. LOTS of good stuff on building and flying there.
Good luck. We love pictures, post your birds here!

Tom

oh yeah, also MicroMaxx (small rockets, small budget.)

 

[MichaelRapp]

The motors were stored at the front of the garage near the door into the house, so they were on the opposite side of the garage from the garage door. So, I think they were isolated from any rapid or major temperature swings. They would have gotten down into the upper 30s a few times during the winters.

I'm going to have to play with that OpenRocket software....that looks fun. I ordered two skill level one rockets from Apogee this afternoon.

While I wait for them to arrive, one thing I need to do is carve out some workspace in my office and garage. Before I did things on the dining room table, which meant I didn't have everything at hand, couldn't leave stuff out for a long period, and generally felt rushed. I want to set it up so that I have time to really do a good job and not rush things, definitely not like the quickly glue things together and launch that afternoon method I did before.

Where these videos are so useful is in the small things, such as how to sand or how to properly apply wood glue. To someone like me that has never done anything like that, seeing someone do it is invaluable.

--Michael in Houston

 

[luke strawwalker]

If you're interested in the real thing (historical NASA rockets) and actually having to build the things rather than snap together junk, be sure to check out Dr. Zooch Rockets...

I've done a number of build threads here on the forums... a quick search of "Dr. Zooch Rockets" should turn them up...

Later and good luck! OL JR

PS. Best to fly those motors that have been subjected to Houston summertime temps (100 degrees+) and wintertime temps (low 30's) on a warm day in a rocket you're not worried about getting damaged if the motor should cato... DO NOT fly them in cool conditions, as it makes it more prone to fail... Good luck! OL JR

 

[MichaelRapp]

...and here is the photo of my surviving rocket.



What I plan on doing is getting another Big Bertha kit and really trying to do it well.....sand, prime, and paint properly and compare the two.

--Michael in Houston

 

[MichaelRapp]

It's not much, I know, but it is my first rocket in over six and a half years. It's an Estes E2X Dragonite. Its sole purpose in life is to help me determine if my old motors (mainly the ten C6-5s I have) are still viable. I had forgotten exactly what an E2X model involved. I knew it was easy to put together, but I had forgotten it meant no gluing, so can see the odd shock cord (at to me) design. The shock cord ties onto the body tube itself and is covered by a shroud that also serves as the top part of the launch lug.



--Michael in Houston

 

[MichaelRapp]

Heh....just noticed the full and pristine-looking bottle of wood glue in the photo....all ready for its first application on a Avion motor mount I hope to put together this evening.

--Michael in Houston

 

[KennB]

It's not much, I know, but it is my first rocket in over six and a half years. It's an Estes E2X Dragonite. Its sole purpose in life is to help me determine if my old motors (mainly the ten C6-5s I have) are still viable. I had forgotten exactly what an E2X model involved. I knew it was easy to put together, but I had forgotten it meant no gluing, so can see the odd shock cord (at to me) design. The shock cord ties onto the body tube itself and is covered by a shroud that also serves as the top part of the launch lug.

--Michael in Houston

Hi Michael. Welcome to TRF and welcome back to model rocketry.

As you've observed, the E2X models and some other Estes rockets use the plastic insert that has the launch lugs as an anchor for the shock cord. This puts the shock cord pretty close to the motor's ejection charge and it is not unusual for the cord to burn through after only a few flights. This results in the body tube and fin can falling back to earth fins first to the detriment of the plastic and the nose cone floating off on the parachute.

If you plan on launching the rocket more than twice to check your old motor stash, I'd recommend cutting the shock cord and reinstalling it closer to the top of the body tube or adding a second shock cord, slightly longer, as a back up. Even if it's an E2X, you spent money for it and you may as well get as much usage out of it as you want.

Happy flying.

 

[MichaelRapp]

Hi Kenn!

Yeah, that is probably what I'm going to do. It even occurred to me to glue it when I was assembling it. If I remember right, the way Estes has you do it on their skill level one rockets is take a small piece of paper with three holes punched in it and thread the shock cord through that then glue the assembly to the inner upper part of the tube.

On a related note, one thing I did this afternoon was practice packing the parachute properly. I suspect that one of the root causes of me damaging all of the previous rockets is that I didn't quite know how to pack a parachute properly -- I just sort of rolled/crumpled it in -- and undoubtably had tangled shroud lines and a few very late unfoldings.

--Michael in Houston

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Hey Michael,

I recently had a sale in the yard sale, and one of the deals may be falling through. (Seller hasn't sent payment, and I haven't got an update in some time.) I'm not ready to give up yet, but if I do, there will be some great kits for sale in a range of skill levels, from E2X, Skill Level 1, Skill Level 2, up to Skill Level 5. There's a rocket that can fly on D and E motors. There's even a PSII kit that can fly on the Black-powder E and F motors up to Composite G motors. Among the skill level 1 and 2 kits are a payload rocket and a 2-stage rocket. I think you could probably do the entire NARTREK Bronze level with these kits.

Like I said, I haven't given up yet on the pending sale, but it seems sketchy to me. Here is a link to the sale: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...Kits-Saturn-V-D-Region-Tomahawk-plus-some-LPR Everything marked Pending was in that one order, and I had accepted an offer of $100 for all of it, including shipping. If that falls through, I'd accept the same offer.

Anyway, I don't mean to hijack your thread with a sales pitch, but I think these kits would offer a great path forward for someone ready to move out of E2X and work up through the skill levels. Plus they are cool rockets at a good price! If you are at all interested, then I will let you know if I decide to put these back up for sale.

Now, getting back to your thread, the rocket looks good! I hope your older motors work out --- they will probably be fine. And good luck with the Avion build!

 

[GlenP]

...I didn't quite know how to pack a parachute properly -- I just sort of rolled/crumpled it in -- and undoubtably had tangled shroud lines and a few very late unfoldings.

in the humid Houston climate it may help to dust the 'chute with some baby talcum powder to prevent it from sticking to itself. Throw in a generous amount and you get a little extra puff cloud when it pops open to help you find it in the sky.

 

[MichaelRapp]

Thanks for the suggestion on the rockets, but I've spent my rocket fund for the month.

Glen - thanks for the suggestion on the baby powder. I be sure to do that.