Going For My Canadian Level 1-3 HPR Certification! - Wildman Shape Shifter Jr...

Discussion in 'High Power Rocketry (HPR)' started by rocketgeek101, Nov 11, 2013.

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  1. Nov 23, 2013 #31

    rocketgeek101

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    So today I finally gave all the fiberglass parts a bath. They come with so much dust on them! Turned the water in the sink a murky grey...

    The rest of the build will be put on hold until I order the other stuff I need to build her. I've been holding off doing that, as I'm hoping I may be able to get a few good deals during the upcoming Black Friday/Saturday sales.

    Thanks for looking!

    SDC10115.jpg

    SDC10116.jpg
     
  2. Nov 29, 2013 #32

    rocketgeek101

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    Ever the indecisive one, after thoroughly re-reading Green Jello's build of the Wildman Jr and Danno's Shape Shifter build, I'm now thinking of skipping on the fancy epoxys, and using JB Weld for assembling the motor mount and tacking on the fins, 15 or 30 min epoxy for the external fillets, and rather then doing internal fillets I'll use some of this expanding foam to fill the space between the motor tube and airframe.

    What is the correct size Aero Pack for the Wildman 38mm fiberglass tubes? I know that for 29mm it's size P, and I would assume that would be the case with 38mm as well; though I figured I would check first before ordering.

    Also looking at parachutes, it seems that the PML 48" chute would be about the right size for this rocket (I'm not worrying about a drogue at the moment). Either that or maybe I would be better off with their 36" size?

    48":http://www.allrocketengines.ca/Build/Parachutes/Nylon-48

    36":http://www.allrocketengines.ca/Build/Parachutes/Nylon-36

    Thanks :)
     
  3. Nov 29, 2013 #33

    Area66

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    Don’t use cheap epoxy, I did it on my first fiberglass rockets, and it end that I dremmel all the filets and replace them with Aeropoxy and shopped fiber, Cheap epoxy fillets will cracks.
     
  4. Nov 29, 2013 #34

    Danno

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    For the motor retainer, that's correct - 38P is the size you need.

    For the parachute, I'm not sure - all I can say for certain is that Wildman's 30" Recon chute will a) fold small enough to fit in the tube, and b) give you a reasonable descent rate (I get around 25 ft/sec). [EDIT: that PML chute does look really nice, though. I would just be concerned that it might not fit in the 2.1" tube.]

    [EDIT #2: I've had no problems with JB Weld fillets on two rockets so far, although neither one has had to endure a hard landing yet. Your mileage may vary.]
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  5. Nov 29, 2013 #35

    blackbrandt

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    I drop my darkstar jr in on a 34 inch chute off drogueless descent.
     
  6. Nov 29, 2013 #36

    rocketgeek101

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    I'm not sure that's a concern if I do encapsulate the fin root with foam. Also the fin design is such that I doubt it will land directly on a fin.

    What are other guys thoughts on this?
     
  7. Nov 29, 2013 #37

    rocketgeek101

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    I've been looking at the PML ones because they are available in Canada. Has anyone tried fitting a 48" one into a 54mm tube? Does it fit?

    I suppose if I do get Aeropoxy from Giant Leap, I could order some chutes from them too. I'll have to take a closer look at what they offer. And then there is Wildman's (hopefully epic) sale tomorrow:) If the deals are good and my willpower is weak, I may just end up ordering everything I need from them (along with a rocket kit or two...).
     
  8. Nov 29, 2013 #38

    rocketgeek101

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    How heavy is your Darkstar, and what is the decent rate?

    Thanks.
     
  9. Nov 30, 2013 #39

    rocketgeek101

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    Well, the Wildman now owns a lot of my money, and I now have most of the things I'll need to get underway with this build ordered:D

    I decided to go with Rocketpoxy (2 pint kit).

    Also got a Shape Shifter Mini to keep the Jr company (and to do a few test flights of the design before launching it's bigger brother :)).

    Danno, I decided to copy you a little and ordered a 30' recon chute. :)

    Once my stuff arrives (about 2 weeks based on previous orders with Tim) the actual build will begin, so stay tuned!

    -S
     
  10. Nov 30, 2013 #40

    GDJ

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    Looking forward to seeing this rocket launch (well, at least some good pics! :) )
     
  11. Nov 30, 2013 #41

    nute

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    This is looking really cool, will look forward to seeing how the Rocketpoxy works, as I just ordered some myself.
    I really like the looks of this kit, and it should be great for certs- strong, a bit heavy, and more simple than complex.
    I, for one, will be following this build closely!
     
  12. Nov 30, 2013 #42

    rocketgeek101

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    Thanks Nate! I'll be sure to share my thoughts on Rocketpoxy. Sinfuldarklord started this thread reviewing the stuff - lots of good info there! http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?55340-Rocket-Poxy-Review
     
  13. Nov 30, 2013 #43

    rocketgeek101

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    I'll try to get some good pics, though I haven't really succeeded yet. The rocket is usually blurry. I think my shutter speed is too slow, but I can't figure out how to change it (its just a Canon point and shoot digital cam).
     
  14. Nov 30, 2013 #44

    nute

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  15. Nov 30, 2013 #45

    CRC

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    Suscribed, by friend wants to do his level 1,2,3 all in 1 shot but I convinced him to go just 1 & 2 then 3 with a diff rocket. Post lots of pics :)
     
  16. Nov 30, 2013 #46

    GDJ

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    Does it have a "Sports" mode? That usually punches up the CCD sensitivity and the shutter speed.
     
  17. Nov 30, 2013 #47

    blackbrandt

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    Also see if it has "burst mode". AKA machine gun mode.

    :)
     
  18. Nov 30, 2013 #48

    Danno

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    I got some from the Black Friday sale myself - going to try it out on my new Super Jart. :)

    I think you'll like it - I actually just got a new one after burning holes in the old one with failed ground testing.
     
  19. Nov 30, 2013 #49

    rocketgeek101

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    I almost got the Super Jart too, but then I looked at my shopping cart total and decided against it. Darn those big numbers with the $ sign in front...:mad:

    Would you happen to have pictures of the chute when inflated? Just to get an idea of what it looks like in flight. Thanks.
     
  20. Nov 30, 2013 #50

    Danno

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    I don't have an in-flight photo, but I do have this one of the chute unfurled in the workshop:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Nov 30, 2013 #51

    rocketgeek101

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    They do look nice! Would you mind weighing it for me so I can edit that data into my sim file? (Might as well start doing some sims while I wait for those components to arrive:))

    Thanks again.
     
  22. Nov 30, 2013 #52

    Danno

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    I just took the new one out of the bag and it is 107 grams including the pre-attached swivel.
     
  23. Dec 1, 2013 #53

    CF-105

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    Reminds me of the Skyangle chutes, which work quite well.

    Sebastian, are you still planning on using the expanding foam? A couple of thoughts if you are:

    - External fillets won't be necessary for reinforcing... but will reduce drag.
    - Replacing a damaged fin that's secured internally with foam is a major pain. Been there...

    I would say you'd be fine without the foam. However, there's certainly nothing wrong with using it, even just for the sake of experimenting with it.
     
  24. Dec 2, 2013 #54

    rocketgeek101

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    Not sure. I guess it'll depend on how I feel about Rocketpoxy once I test it out (I'll be bonding some scrap stuff together to test it out first before applying it to the actual components). Weight and its placement is another factor; I want to keep the stability margin around ~1.5 cal with a Pro 38 6XL shoved up the pipe... Btw, thanks for the heads up on fin replacement!
     
  25. Dec 2, 2013 #55

    rocketgeek101

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    Thank you! I'll edit that into my OR file.
    I'll also be weighing each of the components that came with the kit, and adjusting the masses in my OR file accordingly (I want to make it as accurate as possible):).
     
  26. Dec 3, 2013 #56

    mpitfield

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    I believe there is a lot of value in focusing on one certification level at a time, gain some experience in flying that level then leverage that experience to think about/consult with the community and build for the next level.

    To share my current plan. I am currently focusing on and building my level 1 which I have been building for 3 months and after picking the brains of a lot of much more experienced people on TRF and my club, the rocket has gone through many revisions. My plan is currently to fly the rocket on a high end G to get a feel for it then go for my level 1 in the late spring. I do own a kit that I may build for my level 2 but I stopped thinking about building it to practise what I am preaching above. Ideally I will have a fleet of 4 or 5 HPR builds complete by the summer of 2014 which all use different deployment and building techniques and then use that experience to design and build my level 2, which may work out for summer 2015.
     
  27. Dec 3, 2013 #57

    rocketgeek101

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    I've been in contact with Mark @ Stickershock, trying to figure out decals for the Shape Shifter.

    As mentioned in post #2, I'm planning on copying Gary Tortora's decal design on his Shape Shifter Jr. Though I'm thinking I might get them in a different colour, to keep my Shape Shifter unique. Problem is I'm not exactly sure what colour to get them in in. Ultimately the decision is mine, but I figure I'll ask for some suggestions anyhow:).

    Right now, I think I've narrowed it down to four: yellow, white, green (like Gary's - 'cause it looks good), or red. (Attached is a picture to give you an idea of what those colours might look like).

    Btw, I could also document the build of my Shape Shifter Mini in this thread if you guys are interested:confused2:.

    -S

    Shape Shifter colours.jpg
     
  28. Dec 3, 2013 #58

    conman13

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    I think the red looks cool. The green is the best in my opinion though.:D
     
  29. Dec 7, 2013 #59

    rocketgeek101

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    I spent a good part of the morning working on the OpenRocket file. I individually weighed each component and entered that data into the OR file. I also edited all of the external components to match the ones that came in my kit (I didn't do the internal components like the bulk plates or CRs because my callipers need new batteries). It's not 100% accurate towards the finished rocket (as I haven't accounted for the weight of the epoxy, shock cords, Aero Pack, planned glueless nosecone mod, etc.), but it's enough to start running some simulations with.

    Here is a table showing the weights off all the components that came in MY kit:
    ShapeShifter_Parts_Weight.png

    With regards to decals; Despite the fact that it won't be unique, I think I'll go with the green (as it is hands down the best looking one). Time to let Mark know!:grin:

    Here is a screen shot of a quick simulation of the level 1 and 3 motors I'd like to use: Obviously I'm going to have to trim the delays a bit. On the J270 I only get slightly over 5000'. IMO that's about right for a Level 3 flight.
    SSquicksim.jpg

    Also, here is a screen shot of the OR file for the Shape Shifter Mini:
    SSMSS.jpg
    I find it's a little stubby looking. Next time I order something from Wildman's, I think I'll get a DD upgrade kit for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  30. Dec 8, 2013 #60

    GaryT

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    Sebastian,
    Looking good so far. Personally I'd go with internal fillets over the foam. Here is some info you can use for your sims.

    Weight - 4.62lbs (ready to fly no motor)
    Chute used - 36"
    CP - 44.7" from NC tip. This is a Ratio between Barroman & RockSim

    Real World Flights:
    • CTI I303BS - 4061'
    • CTI I242WH - 4090'
    • CTI J270G - 4661'

    IMG_7422.jpg MDRA 2012_0421.jpg
     

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