Glue options plastic to wood/cardboard besides CA?

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BigMacDaddy

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I am doing lots of scratch builds where I am 3D printing ABS plastic and connecting parts to cardboard body tubes and thin plywood fins. I have been using CA glue -- thick and thin versions -- which is great, fast, holds strong, convenient, etc... Unfortunately, I have become allergic to CA glue (super clogged sinuses, aches and pains, headache, etc... for days after I use it even with an N95 mask. This has been going on for more than a year and I am very confident that it is CA glue causing this, although I am also somewhat sensitive to spray paint and other chemicals). I know I may be able to ventilate better or use a respirator but I really want to just be able to quickly assemble some rockets at the dining room table when I have a few minutes after the kids go to sleep.

Any suggestions about other glue options to attach plastic and wood/cardboard? I would rather something that sets fast. I have not tried the no-fume CA glue which some have said is better. I usually use wood glue (Titebond II) to attach wood to cardboard so just need something that can connect plastic to other materials.
 

neil_w

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I am doing lots of scratch builds where I am 3D printing ABS plastic and connecting parts to cardboard body tubes and thin plywood fins. I have been using CA glue -- thick and thin versions -- which is great, fast, holds strong, convenient, etc... Unfortunately, I have become allergic to CA glue (super clogged sinuses, aches and pains, headache, etc... for days after I use it even with an N95 mask. This has been going on for more than a year and I am very confident that it is CA glue causing this, although I am also somewhat sensitive to spray paint and other chemicals). I know I may be able to ventilate better or use a respirator but I really want to just be able to quickly assemble some rockets at the dining room table when I have a few minutes after the kids go to sleep.

Any suggestions about other glue options to attach plastic and wood/cardboard? I would rather something that sets fast. I have not tried the no-fume CA glue which some have said is better. I usually use wood glue (Titebond II) to attach wood to cardboard so just need something that can connect plastic to other materials.
The no-fume CA glue is wonderful, totally worth the (significant) extra cost for my purposes. You should definitely try it out, if you're finding that CA in general suits your needs.

I've usually used epoxy for wood/paper to plastic joints, even knowing that epoxy grip on plastic is not always the best. I try to rough up the plastic first, and if 3D printing I've started to design in some texture to the glue surfaces to give the epoxy something to grip. Admittedly, epoxy probably doesn't meet the "sets fast" criterion, although 5 minute epoxy maybe will work.

@hcmbanjo has been advocating Beacon Fabri-tac for some time for such joints. I haven't tried it myself. I don't know if it's specifically good on ABS or not (exact variety of plastic seems to matter quite a bit).
 

Scott_650

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I've used Fabri Tac for years - since I saw it in Chris's blog as Neil said. For LPR stuff it's perfect since you don't have to open and mix epoxy then waste the leftovers. For bigger MPR or HPR rockets I'd go with epoxy if CA is a no-no - but epoxy use can lead to developing contact allergies too 😐
 

BigMacDaddy

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The no-fume CA glue is wonderful, totally worth the (significant) extra cost for my purposes. You should definitely try it out, if you're finding that CA in general suits your needs.

I've usually used epoxy for wood/paper to plastic joints, even knowing that epoxy grip on plastic is not always the best. I try to rough up the plastic first, and if 3D printing I've started to design in some texture to the glue surfaces to give the epoxy something to grip. Admittedly, epoxy probably doesn't meet the "sets fast" criterion, although 5 minute epoxy maybe will work.

@hcmbanjo has been advocating Beacon Fabri-tac for some time for such joints. I haven't tried it myself. I don't know if it's specifically good on ABS or not (exact variety of plastic seems to matter quite a bit).
Thanks so much -- I went ahead and purchased 2oz of the gap-filling no-fume CA glue and 1oz of the thin stuff...
 

neil_w

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Thanks so much -- I went ahead and purchased 2oz of the gap-filling no-fume CA glue and 1oz of the thin stuff...
Excellent, check back here and let us know how it works for you, especially with regard to the fume sensitivity.
 

BigMacDaddy

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I've used Fabri Tac for years - since I saw it in Chris's blog as Neil said. For LPR stuff it's perfect since you don't have to open and mix epoxy then waste the leftovers. For bigger MPR or HPR rockets I'd go with epoxy if CA is a no-no - but epoxy use can lead to developing contact allergies too 😐
Thanks I went ahead and bought some of this as well -- my wife sews and works with fabric (not least of which is for costumes for the kids) so even if this bothers my nose she can find a use for it. I will test on a smaller part -- the acetone part is interesting for gluing ABS but too much might distort thin parts.
 

cautery

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Might I suggest a "real" full face respirator in lieu of the N95. The N95 is wholly unsuited to preventing the inhalation of volatile organics and other chemical vapors. If it is dermal contact, add 100% glove up (even double), and a Tyvek suit or parts thereof.
 

JimByrne

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The no-fume CA glue is wonderful, totally worth the (significant) extra cost for my purposes. You should definitely try it out, if you're finding that CA in general suits your needs.

I've usually used epoxy for wood/paper to plastic joints, even knowing that epoxy grip on plastic is not always the best. I try to rough up the plastic first, and if 3D printing I've started to design in some texture to the glue surfaces to give the epoxy something to grip. Admittedly, epoxy probably doesn't meet the "sets fast" criterion, although 5 minute epoxy maybe will work.

@hcmbanjo has been advocating Beacon Fabri-tac for some time for such joints. I haven't tried it myself. I don't know if it's specifically good on ABS or not (exact variety of plastic seems to matter quite a bit).
Where do you get no fume ca glue? I looked on Amazon but no luck.
 

Scott_650

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Thanks I went ahead and bought some of this as well -- my wife sews and works with fabric (not least of which is for costumes for the kids) so even if this bothers my nose she can find a use for it. I will test on a smaller part -- the acetone part is interesting for gluing ABS but too much might distort thin parts.
Fabri Tac does have a high acetone content and it is a bit stringy - I’ve typically used it on styrene parts and whatever the odd plastic is that Sky used on the Round 2/MPC kits where it’s worked very well. Best thing about F T is it’s relatively cheap and easy to find. Good luck - contact allergies can be a bear, I had a coworker who had to change career fields due to developing an allergic reaction.
 

Scott_650

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Where do you get no fume ca glue? I looked on Amazon but no luck.
Here’s a tip - most foam safe CAs are odorless, not all but most. So if the package says foam safe look a bit closer, you’ll likely see it’s odorless as well.
 

BigMacDaddy

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Good luck - contact allergies can be a bear, I had a coworker who had to change career fields due to developing an allergic reaction.
Thanks -- I tell my coworkers at the business school I work at about this and they are like "Do you use crazy glue enough for that to be a problem?". I am like, little do you know...
 

Bowman

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Might I suggest a "real" full face respirator in lieu of the N95. The N95 is wholly unsuited to preventing the inhalation of volatile organics and other chemical vapors. If it is dermal contact, add 100% glove up (even double), and a Tyvek suit or parts thereof.
Agree 100%, N95 is a particle rating only. Good advice!

If it is truly inhalation only that causes the problem you wouldn't need a full-face mask and fitment of mask for nose and mouth is easier. Just be sure the cartridge(s) are rated for "Organic Vapor" and not just dust control.
Also keep in mind that facial hair (beards) can defeat the effective seal around your nose and mouth.
One way to check fit is to put your hands over the cartridge ends and inhale. The mask should suck in to your face. If it doesn't, you don't have a good seal.
 

BigMacDaddy

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BigMacDaddy

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Might I suggest a "real" full face respirator in lieu of the N95. The N95 is wholly unsuited to preventing the inhalation of volatile organics and other chemical vapors. If it is dermal contact, add 100% glove up (even double), and a Tyvek suit or parts thereof.
Thanks -- sorry missed this reply earlier. I think my issue is just with inhalation.

I have a respirator so I will try to buy some new organic canisters for it. We are working on renovating a level of our home so I will also try to setup a vent hood once things are done in my new workroom (inline fan with duct running to a window insert is my initial thought since I will be in an extra bedroom).
 

cautery

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Thanks -- sorry missed this reply earlier. I think my issue is just with inhalation.

I have a respirator so I will try to buy some new organic canisters for it. We are working on renovating a level of our home so I will also try to setup a vent hood once things are done in my new workroom (inline fan with duct running to a window insert is my initial thought since I will be in an extra bedroom).
Gotcha. Keep a year's worth of new production organic canisters on hand.
1) Depending on the chemical, the filter may have a more rapid EOL, so you have to change more often.
2) It's much more likely that you will change an "iffy" set of filters IF you have the replacement RIGHT THERE.

Be well, and be safe!
-Clay
 
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jqavins

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I recently heard about this stuff "canopy glue" from @Raptor 2; I'd never heard of it before. I have not tried it, but from what s/he says, I think it's worth your time to investigate. The product description from one brand on Amazon states:
Formula 560 is specially formulated to bond Canopies and Plastic parts to / wood, fiberglass, paint, or MonoKote surfaces. / / FEATURES: Safely bonds vinyl, ABS, Butyrate, and other plastics. / Forms a firm, flexible clear bond that can withstand shock and vibration.
As far as quick work, I'm sorry to say that one manufacturer, Pacer, states three hours to set for handling, and 24 hours for full cure. I guess you can't have everything.
 

Raptor 2

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Just to fill in some more info on the above mentioned glue.
It’s called Deluxe Materials RC Modellers Canopy Glue. deluxematerials.com
I had glued plastic fins to a fin tube for my Titan IIIC. I cut slots in the tube and cross inserted the fins inside the tube and glued it all together with this glue. I broke a fin on a hard landing in a parking lot and had to replace the fin tube and fins. I could take the fin assembly apart and remove the one fin intact from the damaged remains. Applied a little Goo Gone to the fin after removing most of the glue with an exacto blade. The remaining glue came off leaving a clear smooth fin which I could reuse in the new fin tube. I use it also to glue cardstock nose cones to the tops of tubes with interior shoulders to hold the glue and support the cone.
 

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bjphoenix

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When I was doing archery we used a glue called "fletch tite" to glue plastic vanes to aluminum arrow shafts. The stuff would stick very well to both materials. When I worked in a garage we used 3M trim cement to glue all kinds of rubber and plastic materials to metal. This was a contact cement meaning you put it on both surfaces, let it dry mostly, then put the 2 surfaces together. You didn't have to do this, you could put it on and put the pieces together immediately but it had to dry for awhile before it had any holding power.

I've always wondered, and some experiments might be in order, if you could use one of these glues that sticks well to plastic and put a coating of it on the plastic, then proceed as normal with CA or epoxy to bond to the surface of the plastic glue.

The closest I come to this is needing to glue plastic parts is transitions and such- my recent builds have been the Estes Guardian with plastic nose and plastic transition to get glued to a small BT, and the Estes ESAM that has a plastic nozzle that you glue in the tail. Neither of these joints requires much strength. For the Guardian I used normal epoxy and I was planning to do that on the ESAM also. I roughened the plastic surfaces with coarse sandpaper first.
 

jqavins

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I've always wondered, and some experiments might be in order, if you could use one of these glues that sticks well to plastic and put a coating of it on the plastic, then proceed as normal with CA or epoxy to bond to the surface of the plastic glue.
Interesting. If the glue to glue contact doesn't work out, since both glues are good for adhesion to metal it might work to use a very thin metal layer as an intermediary. Plastic, to Fletch Tite, to aluminum foil, to CA or epoxy, to other material.
 

Lee

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I make epoxy rivets when attaching plastic to cardboard. Here's a photo of a rocket being made from a paper towel tube with a plastic egg nose cone. I haven't had the epoxy rivets fail yet.
Nose cone egg 1.jpg
 

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What happened to plain old wood glue. It does grab fast so be careful when assembling the parts. Non-toxic.
 

Rocketjunkie

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Wood glue does not adhere well to plastic.
I was talking about fins, etc. Permanent bond, use rivets. You can always take them out if you decide later you want to separate there later. For a separation point, friction fit with masking tape works very well on cardboard and plastic nose cones.
 

jqavins

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The subject is glue options for plastic parts. If it's plastic fins, or balsa fins on a plastic tube, the question isn't any different and wood glue still won't do the job.
 

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Try E6000. I use it on a lot of RC applications and it's good for gluing just about anything. It's available at Walmart.
 

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I have used E6000 and it grabs and holds well. However, ok have found it sets kind of soft and flexible. If a rigid hold is needed, it's not my choice.
 

BigMacDaddy

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FYI - I tried the thin and thick non-fume CA glues. They are much better for me. I still get a clogged up nose but it is not nearly as bad and it goes away much faster... Thanks for advice.

FWIW - I did have some of the thick glue set up too quickly on a nose cone being inserted into a body tube. It was a tight fit but usually the thick CA glue would give me a couple of twists before locking into place. This non-fume glue locked in immediately and I had to cut the nose cone and peal it out of the body tube since it was crooked. Takes some getting used to I guess.
 
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