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Glassed Argent...?

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ActingLikeAKid

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My Estes Argent was my first foray into MPR and did just fine on its maiden flight into HPR, happily taking a 3g CTI H up to 2300 feet.

I've been (see other thread) starting to think about buying something bigger/faster (I have this 3g CTI 38mm case I'd love to try out) when it struck me:

What if I glassed an Argent and put a 38mm mmt into it? I know Mr. Ramen would approve ;) A little looking at OpenRocket says it ought to do fine. I figure that BT glassing, small fillets and tip-to-top glassing on the fins... I ought to have something that I can stuff a pretty massive 38mm into and - again, according to OpenRocket - I ought to be flirting with the Mach and Mile milestones, especially if I shorten the BTs a bit. And if I use some foresight (read: Don't glue, but drill and screw/pin the upper section), I can swap over to DD at some point in the future if I want. (My plan would be to use a Chute Release, possibly with a small drogue, to do "baby DD")

Thoughts?
 

K'Tesh

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I'd be willing to follow that (as a build thread). :pop:
 

rstaff3

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I say do it. There is a long history of people beefing up LPR kits and flying on HPR. So, why not a MPR to HPR? I for one am a light-weight and have only flown LPR kits on G's.
 

NateLowrie

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+1 from me on doing it, though a question on the fins: How thick is the plywood and is it a TTW mount? If it's a TTW mount, you should be able to mount it, inject internal epoxy fillets, and do an outer epoxy fillet without the need for T2T glassing. That would be plenty strong to survive a full I or baby J. The one thing you will need to check on is fin flutter. I suspect the fins are probably 1/8" plywood. Run your fin flutter speed calcs and if you find you need to beef it up to prevent flutter at the speeds you'll be going with a larger motor, put a layer of 2oz glass on each side before mounting into the slots.
 

Banzai88

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Cool idea, if you're doing it because you just want to learn glassing on a less expensive kit. Just having gotten into glassing myself, it's easier than it appears. I'd glass the fins if you're going to push it, to be certain, Estes ply isn't overly superb quality and stiffness.

Otherwise, it might be more cost effective to order the parts and just use standard HP tubes.
 

rstaff3

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IMO the Argent would be a fine starting point. As Nate said, consider how to beef up the fins with an extra layer before tipt-to-tipping them. Internal fillets, yes. Transition points are another place it could go wrong so pinning the transition to a glassed tube sounds good. Maybe pin the upper part of the transition too? That's all the advice from a person that has never done mach on such a rocket. I'm sure that them who have will add to this.
 

Banzai88

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One other thought, carefully inspect the thickness of the coupler/reducer. Mine was super thin and blew apart on motor ejection.
 

ActingLikeAKid

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Argent is out of stock.
Ventris is a possibility, but not sure about the "big to small" transition at transonic speed. May go back to my upscale Vector Force idea.
 

rstaff3

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One other thought, carefully inspect the thickness of the coupler/reducer. Mine was super thin and blew apart on motor ejection.
My gut would be to say that mine is nice and sturdy...but I probably just wasn't paying attention (will check to satisfy my curiosity). I guess a ply bulkhead would help on ejection. More importantly might be to see if it needs some 2-part foam to make sure it survives a really fast flight?
 

75Grandville

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To me, a lot of rocketry is about "because I want to/because I can."

What you are doing sounds safe (and that's usually my only concern), so if it floats your boat, go for it!

I'm working on sleeving a LOC Ultimate with carbon fiber, then trying to fly it on 6 x H motors and an I motor, with air starts. Why? See first sentence:) I'm learning about composite building techniques, and will be learning more about electronics (safety for airstarts is bigger consideration than I initially expected).

As Banzai88 said, if your only reason is to build a 38mm bird, there are a lot of other choices out there.

My biggest problem is that I can't find time to do 1/10th of what I can dream up.


If they are out of Argents, one thing I've been wanting to do is get a 3D Rocketry FS2-3", and bump it from a 29mm MMT to a 38mm MMT... Only about $50, shipped. You could flirt with Mach and a Mile with a 3 grain 38mm...
 
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ActingLikeAKid

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Yeah, I'm with you on the dreams vs. time issue.

I don't have it in front of me, but I may go back to my Upscale Vector Force idea... basically taking the Vector Force (which is a cool looking rocket anyway), using 54/38/29 Blue Tube as airframe, and putting a 38mm MMT in it.
 

Banzai88

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My gut would be to say that mine is nice and sturdy...but I probably just wasn't paying attention (will check to satisfy my curiosity). I guess a ply bulkhead would help on ejection. More importantly might be to see if it needs some 2-part foam to make sure it survives a really fast flight?
I bulkheaded the bottom and foam filled the replacement. Solid as a rock now!
 

MikeyDSlagle

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As mentioned by others, if you just want a 38mm bird, just buy you one. I think MAC Performance is having a sale. That MPR38 sure is sexy. If I didn't have so many in the build pile and half built pile, I would get me one.

But if really want to glass the Argent and make it 38mm, then go for it. Same for the blue tube Vector Force. You would definitely have a unique bird. And I am all for unique.

I don't think the Argent is OOP, so it should be back in stock eventually. I will check my stash, if Estes doesn't restock I may can sell ya one.


Mike
 

TopRamen

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You already know what I would say.

I glassed the discharge chute for my Mom's lawn tractor for her yesterday, as she hit something with it and cracked it.
 

rstaff3

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As mentioned by others, if you just want a 38mm bird, just buy you one. I think MAC Performance is having a sale. That MPR38 sure is sexy. If I didn't have so many in the build pile and half built pile, I would get me one.

But if really want to glass the Argent and make it 38mm, then go for it. Same for the blue tube Vector Force. You would definitely have a unique bird. And I am all for unique.

I don't think the Argent is OOP, so it should be back in stock eventually. I will check my stash, if Estes doesn't restock I may can sell ya one.


Mike
This. A glassed Argent isn't necessarily in competition with composite/MAC kits or even LOC. It can (could?) be had cheap, would provide experience on building techniques, and would be a fun project.
 

ActingLikeAKid

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As mentioned by others, if you just want a 38mm bird, just buy you one. I think MAC Performance is having a sale. That MPR38 sure is sexy. If I didn't have so many in the build pile and half built pile, I would get me one.

But if really want to glass the Argent and make it 38mm, then go for it. Same for the blue tube Vector Force. You would definitely have a unique bird. And I am all for unique.

I don't think the Argent is OOP, so it should be back in stock eventually. I will check my stash, if Estes doesn't restock I may can sell ya one.


Mike
Thanks, Mike! I'll watch the Estes site...
 

ActingLikeAKid

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You already know what I would say.

I glassed the discharge chute for my Mom's lawn tractor for her yesterday, as she hit something with it and cracked it.
My LPR launch pad cracked a leg, I'm considering making a prosthetic one with glass..
 
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