Glandular Conditions (or classic model rockets on steroids...)

[jflis]

The thread on the Orbital Transport got me to thinking that a thread on scratchbuilding classic Estes and Centuri (and other) kits in different scales would be fun as it is a popular thing to do (heck, even Estes has done it).

I've been doing it since the early to mid 70's and have in my collection (or had, in some cases) both mini and maxi versions of:

Gyroc
Trident-like (similar, but with many design differences. I call mine the Grissom)
Saucer
Big-Bertha
Birdie
Sprint
Sprite
Sputnic
Orbital Transport
Odyssey
Starlight
Saturn 1B
Saturn V
Mercury Redstone
Mars Lander (I published *my* mini-mars lander plans in American Spacemodeling about 9 months before Estes came out with one)
Mars Snooper
X-ray
Camroc (with 35mm camera and Delta launch vehicle)
Astro-Cam (with 35mm camera)
Scout
Port-a-Pad
X15

The attached photo shows the following MAXI models at Pearl River MODROC: Grissom, Mars Snooper, Astro-Cam on the Port-a-Pad, Camroc on two stage Delta, Scout and Orbital Transport (for scale, the OT main body tube is a BT70 (2.217" diameter))


You can see most, if not all of these on my various web pages devoted to model rocketry at:
https://jflis.com/hobbies/rocketry/rocketry_photos.htm

What have YOU done in this area, or is this an aspect of the hobby that you have been curious about but haven't had the chance to explore?

Let's hear about it!

jim

 

[sandman]

The resolution on the upscale Astron drifter kinda sucks...black on black.

My upscale drifter is designed for an estes "D" or "E".

I have more! But not that many more. Most of my "glandular" problems involve a LACK of growth hormone and the results is a Micro Maxx version.

I will try not to repeat pics I've posted before.

sandman

P.S. The little one is original size (BT-50) and is finished in just clear dope for that NEKKED look.

 

[eugenefl]

My only thrill in upscaling has been the Gyroc. I've upscaled it to a BT60 and BT80. The mid-sized has flown on everything from a C11 to an E15. The MAXI-Gyroc has flown twice - once on a G35 and once on a G40 at Whitakers. Unfortunately, the MAXI-Gyroc has since retired due to too many stress cracks and airframe kinks. (Poor choice in materials for contrstruction.) It can always be fiberglassed, but that would add to the weight. Maybe someday I will attempt a 4"-5" dia version.

Enjoy.

<a href="https://www.inetplaces.com/~emvasis/stuff/rocketry/HPRFleet.jpg">Gyroc Upscales</a>

 

[Brian Barney]

The only glandular problem rocket that I have built is a 4" diamter upscale estes shadow that I used for my L2 cert. I chose the shadow because it was my biggest rocket that I had in grade school before I found out about HPR, and I just loved it. It ended when a D12 ejection charge didn't pop out the parachute and it coresampled. I have flown my 4" one 2 times, both on 54mm hypertek J engines, the J270 for my cert, and the J317.

I have always wanted to do a 2X mars lander and a 4" estes jayhawk upscale.

Attached is a picture of me with my 4" shadow before my L2 cert flight on the J270.

-Brian Barney

 

[MarkABrown]

My glandular problem has got to be with Custom's tube-finned Razor kit. After building the kit for my daughter, I fell in love with the way the rocket flew. So I upscaled it to about 2X using a 54mm tube for the airframe. It flew so well that it just cried out to be upscaled again. I then upscaled it to about 4X using 4" tubing for the airframe. The 4X version was used for my level 2 certification flight on a Pro38 J360.

1X Razor Pics
2X Razor Pics
4X Razor Pics

 

[EMRR]

I too loved how these tube fins flew. The Custom Serval was the one that caught my attention. But the Razor was a lot of fun with Apogee Motors too!

BTW, when shall we expect the articles on how to upscale the Razor on EMRR? I love the pics you provided.

Regards,
Nick

 

[Fishhead]

I did a BT-80 upscale of the Centuri Mach 10. This isn't an uncommon project, I've seen or heard of several, but I was amazed at how easily it went together and how well it performed. Mine is currently wrecked, but thrilled a soccer field full of kids before it met it's temporary demise. (Needs a new engine tube.)

 

[rocwizard]

Ok guys I wanna put a Red Max on steroids so it gets up to a 7.5" diameter. Where can I get some good dimensions as well as pics!?

Happy Building!

Rocwizard

 

[sandman]

Rock,

I do this ALL the time!

First go here and get the kit dimesions:

https://www.dars.org/jimz/est0651.htm

Download the patterms too.

Divide the 7.5" final tube size by the original tube size 1.637" (a BT-60). and you get 4.58.

4.58 is your "upscale factor". Basically multiply all your dimesions by 4.58.

If ya really want to cheat and not do any more math, just blow up everythin on a copy machine to 458%

It's that easy.

It works the same for going downscale but you "scale factor" will be less than one.

I hope that helps.

sandman

 

[rocwizard]

Ok guys, today I got a wild hair while building an Estes Silver Comet. I noticed that when I cut the boatail down on the motor end, the hole remaining was nearly 38mm in diameter... Could it be done? Well I decided to give it a try. So I am in the process of beefing up the kit. The tube is being glassed with 2 layers of 6oz glass. The fins will either be laminated with carbon fiber, or new ones will be cut out of G10. The tail cone will be filled with foam and the list just keeps going. Let me here your thoughts about the project. Please don't kill me for not posting pics!


rocwizard

 

[daveyfire]

Would you like it to be painful or not? :kill: That Silver Comet sounds really cool-- I might have to steal your idea <g>. It reminds me of my strange desire to convert a Big Daddy over to 54mm operation...

 

[Micromeister]

I guess this urge begain with my favorite subject the Bomarc, I now have 5 in flying condition and a 1:27 (BT-55) size gliding version in construction. Starting with an Estes Mini Bomarc, I went to a 3X- Bt-80 1;13.25 upscale powered be a 3 d12 cluster and fx smokers in the nacelles. then a scratch 1/47 Scale gliding mini version... Not very successful gliding than a Revell 1:48th PMC with launcher, My 1:124.55 MMX version, and finally a 1:27 scale based on the old estes Bt-55 version.
Other MMX, Standard, 1.5X upscales, and 3X scales.

Laser-X: MMX, Std, 1.5X D12 power, 3X -3D12/ 18mm sustainer with electronic upper stage ignition, BT-101/BT60)

Orbital Transport: MMX, Std and 3X 4D12 upscale(BT-80)

Nova Payloader: MMX, Std and 3X 4D12 Cluster (Night Launch Led illuminated)

Goblin: MMX, Std and 3X 5D12 upscale (BT-101)
Ram-Jet: MMX, Std, 1.5X D12, 3X 3D12 (BT-101)
Mars Snooper: MMX, Std, 1.5 D12
Der red Max: MMX, Std
Intercepter: MMX, Std and 3X 4D12 cluster (BT-80) on bench
the Point: MMX, Std.
Cherokee-D MMX, Std.
X-Ray (OLD) MMX, Std.
Warp-II MMX, Std (30 Led Nite payload)
Hercules MMX, Std
Starship Vega MMX, STd(Old), Super Vega
Deep Space Transport: MMX, Std-3C cluster

I don't have many of the photos scanned for these, but here is a 3X laser X lift-off shot, test flight before decals.

 

[Micromeister]

I found a slightly more impressive shot of my 3X Orbital transport 4 D12 liftoff.

 

[mojack82]

Micromister:

Your two pics (Laser-X & OT) - Very nice, indeed. You've got some awfully nice models there.

Seems like the OT just begged to be upscaled, didn't it?

And the Laser-X liftoff picture reminds me of some of the old sci-fi movies of the 50s. It also looks like some of Gerry Anderson's (Derek Meddings actually) FX work in some of the old Supermarionation TV shows (Fireball XL5, T-Birds, etc) - or even Meddings' work on the early James Bond movies (You Only Live Twice comes to mind). Like that fire coming out of the rear.

Great stuff...

Now, how 'bout a nice picture of a Bomarc (with nacelle smoke, of course) liftoff, eh?

 

[Micromeister]

mojack82:
I'm don't have a liftoff of the Bomarc scanned, I'll see if I can put my hands on one today, I did upload a still this model in the Bomarc thread earlier, I know I have a really good lift off shot of the 5-D12 cluster Hobby Goblin and 5-D clustered Crayon, but again not scanned. will try to correct
I left one downscale and standard model combination off my list. the Explorer Aquarius, Pic of the two and liftoff composite is attached. If you look closely you may be able to see the MMX Mars Snooper on the rack, right of center.

 

[astronboy]

Here is a pic of my 160% upscale Super Astron Ranger. This is my first full upscale clone. It is not based on the Super Big Bertha, but is a full clone based on Jim Z site plans. I even had a real Balsa nose cone made by BMS. There are only minor only changes from the original plan: an ejection baffle, engine hooks, and and plywood fins. I went with plywood as the triple D motors will bring this bird downpretty hard, even with a 36" chute. (Cap'n, ya canna' change the laws of Physics!!") The rocket is pretty well finished except for the fin fillets (epoxy), paint, and the final installation of the recovery sysetm. Plans call for a vintage red nose cone, and yellow body with b/w roll patterns as in the early 1970's catalogs.

Many thanks to all on the list who assisted me with the ejection baffle, and other aspects of this rocket design. I cannot wait to launch her!!

In the picture, I have placed the Super Ranger next to my clone of the Astron Ranger.

 

[Micromeister]

Looks really Good Astronboy! I lost my Astron Ranger many many years back, I think I'll have to rebuild one soon... HUMM maybe a MMX Ranger 3 motor cluster

Fins, I have found you can reduce the weight fo these Large plan form fins a good bit by using 3/16" or 1/4" Foamcore with an outer skin of 1/64th birch Ply, Makes the fins strong as iron and very light. I'll post a couple pics of the construstion process as I go with My 3X 4d12 Interceptor wings and fins. Just got the templates cut over the weekend so no pics yet.

 

[daveyfire]

Even stronger and lighter...
Use 1/4" or 1/8" foamcore and laminate with carbon fiber. Very stiff, very strong. This is what Derek Deville used on his Freedom 'Phiter at LDRS 19. May be overkill for models, but then again... that carbon does look cool

 

[Micromeister]

Where do we get Carbon fibre "cloth"? Does it come in different weights or thicknesses? Many of the internat's guys use the stuff for ultra light PD models and on RCRG glider wings, but I haven't found a source for the material, any suggestions? sound like it might be an expensive material also.

 

[Micromeister]

here's a set of 4 pics of the 3X OT's first flight

 

[daveyfire]

Carbon Fiber is available from many sources. Dave Triano at Shadow Composites used to have 0.5 oz Carbon Tissue, which would be great for rolling tubes and such, but he has left for an extended vacation with no telling when he will get back. You can get heavier carbon at Fibreglast or at US Composites. A layer of light cloth on either side of the foam core would be more than sufficient. Composites are fairly easy to use and VERY strong. I love working with them.

 

[KenParker]

*GREAT* pics, Micromister. I really enjoyed those.

 

[Leon Kemp]

Just starting on a 10x upscale of a Ceturi Stilletto. Will fly M to M (ultimately)

You might want to ckeck out https://www3.telus.net/public/albertaw/
Dave has a 16" diameter Fat Boy

 

[KenParker]

Oh man, Phillus the Gerringer is going to be sooooo jealous. Wait until he sees that 4" Mustang in the link above. Somebody hand Phil a towel so he won't be drooling and slobbering all over the place.

 

[Leon Kemp]

What is _not_ shown in Dave's website is his 5x Mustang, just being completed, which will fly at Roc Lake on a HyperTec "M". Also he has a 6" diameter Delta Clipper, just being completed, also set to fly at Roc Lake.

For those not familiar with Roc Lake, see
https://www.lethbridgerocketry.com/roclake/

Dates for this year are June 27-29. All are welcome

 

[rstaff3]

Leon,

I'm glad you posted Dave's link. I had one, but it quit working a while back. He has some great stuff, hope he adds the new projects soon. The super light, giant Fat Boy is my fav.

And by all means keep us informed on the progress of your upscale. Leave out no gory details, and include pics.

 

[Leon Kemp]

He has launched it the last 2 years, and in both cases it had spectacular shreds. He keeps refining it. One of these days it is going to work. It sure looks spectacular in flight. That big base sucks the flame right out to the edge, and beyond, so it has a 24" plus diameter flame!

The ISP that he was using got bought out. That's why the previous link broke. Glad you have the new one.

Will certainly keep you up to date on the Stilletto. Building a 10' V2 at the same time

Now I just need some work to pay for all this stuff! (consulting can really suck!)

 

[Micromeister]

Thanks for the sources Daveyfire:
Do you know if either company also manufactrues carbon fibre Rods?