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Giant Leap Blue Tube? No such thing.

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rejma0415

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Fellow HPR enthusiasts,

I received an e-mail from a customer indicating that Giant Leap Rocketry was out of Blue Tube and wanted to know if I had any. This is not the first time this has happened. I was amazed and shocked to hear that the words Giant Leap and Blue Tube were used in the same sentence because they do not carry Blue Tube. They are not a dealer of Blue Tube and cannot sell Blue Tube. Even though I like their products, buy from them, sell their bulk components and feature their components in my kits, they have chosen to not buy from me, even though I offered. I sent them samples and offered them better pricing than normal dealer pricing, they chose to take the samples and attempt to duplicate my product. I have had no communication with Red Arrow Hobbies, but it is also my understanding that they sell a copycat product as well.

They both may offer a bluish-greenish-tealish tube that is not phenolic, but it is NOT Blue Tube 2.0. If it doesn’t say Blue Tube on the inside wrap, it is not the same product. There IS a difference..

A current list of authorized dealers can be found at www.whatsyourrocketmadeof.com .

Facts:
Blue Tube 1.0 and 2.0 is made from the most expensive vulcanized fiber in the industry. It is approximately 2.5x more expensive than generic fish paper.
Generic fish paper tubing is made with a water based glue, similar to Elmers Glue.
Blue Tube 2.0 is made from a proprietary non water based adhesive that dries harder than anything in its class, and offers a Type II water resistance rating.
Generic fish paper is far more susceptible to warping and humidity, and its primary design is an electrical insulator, not a structural tube.

It is not possible to sell Blue Tube 2.0 at the same prices as phenolic like some do. ARR certainly could if I chose to use electrical grade fish paper with water glue, but I won’t, period. If generic fish paper was strong enough for the military, they would use it, but they don’t because it is inferior. I’d rather go with the best.

I encourage everyone to check out the following links:

Below is a wealth of information, based on work that I have done, to give you, the consumer a better product. Why? Because I love this hobby and wanted so badly to come up with a product that was ready to use right out of the box.

www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/products/bluetube2.0.html

In there you will find the following information.

1. The difference between vulcanized fiber and fish paper.
2. Humidity and warping tests of Blue Tube 2.0
3. A word on warping.
4. A picture of how badly a generic fish paper tube will bend. Even Blue Tube 1.0 on its worst day never bent this grotesquely!

I know more about fishpaper, vf, adhesives, and what it takes to make a tube out of this than anyone in the hobby. Why? Because unlike the competition, I did the research, I did the testing, I earned the knowledge for myself and have worked very hard to give you the best product out there, which is why A patent has been applied for Blue Tube 2.0.


ARR is the leading company in vulcanized fiber airframes, and the first company to release this product to the rocketry industry. ARR will vehemently protect this product from duplication in name, construction or material. I openly welcome GLR and RAH to come aboard to take part in this exciting and superior product, which will do nothing but ultimately yield better service and pricing for all. If you have questions, feel free to contact me or any one of my dealers.

Sincerely,

Randy
Always Ready Rocketry
www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com
arrsales@cox.net
 

atticus

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Are these vendors advertising Blue Tube or is this hearsay from confused customers? I just did a quick check of the Giant Leap and Red Arrow websites and didn't see any reference to Blue Tube or a knockoff. You wouldn't want to accuse someone of fraud or deception on false info.

BTW, I have a length each of 3" and 4" Blue Tube purchased from Apogee just before the announcement of the warping problem. Is there a way to tell from the labeling which version they are? They have been stored vertically since arrival and they just checked out perfctly straight.

Tim
 

RocketFeller

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If Giant Leap is trying to sell a "copycat" Blue Tube I don't know how they are marketing it. There are three airframe choices available on their website - Dyna-wind, flexible phenolic, and filament-wound fiberglass. The fiberglass tubing is the only "bluish-greenish-tealish tube" they offer and it certainly isn't a Blue Tube knock-off.

The overall tone of this thread is rather accusatory, you may want to check your facts before you start slandering companies like GLR. So far the only proof you offer that GLR is trying to market a product based on yours is alleged emails from anonymous customers.

Blue Tube may be a great product (it seems like good stuff, if a bit heavy), but after reading this thread I doubt if I will be buying it any time soon...

I apologize if I am way off-base on this one, but I shop GLR all the time and have never seen anything that could be construed as a Blue Tube copy. If they are selling a Blue Tube knock-off it isn't through their website.
 

cwbullet

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I do not see this coming from GLR. They are good folks. I too looked at their sites and can not find a reference to blue tube.
 

rejma0415

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Atticus:
It is moreso of confused customers. This is what I am trying to correct. I am not inferring at all that GLR or RAH is branding their product as mine. It is not accusatory, everything I have said is fact, hence the reason for the post. I would not have said anything unless I DID check my facts. I have a dealer that has a Blue Tube knock off in their hands that was shipped from GLR, and I have a photo of a Blue Tube knock off offered by RAH at a launch. I did not solicit for these photos or information, this was all sent to me without my asking.

Yes I like GLR's products and service, and no just because it isn't on either one of their sites doesn't mean they do not offer it. They do. Period.

Rocketfeller:
These are facts and I am just protecting my brand, the one unique thing that I have as my own because I'm just a teeny tiny fly on the wall compared to the likes of GLR, PML, LOC, etc.. I'm posting my concerns because of confusion / comments / e-mails / photos and ACTUAL PRODUCT a dealer of mine recieved from GLR. I did not fish for this. So before you decide not to buy my product because you don't like the tone of the thread, stop and think that I certainly would have not put this out there unless I knew for sure, unless you are inferring that the tube that my dealer received is imaginary. :) Call GLR for yourself. Ed himself e-mailed me and told me he was "out of his product" Likewise, so was I...

Atticus:
Regarding the warping, I'm not surprised they are perfectly straight. The issue was, in my opinion, overblown. What you have in your hands is v 1.0 which is still a great product.

Although I don't like how it unfolded, neither company has done anything illegal. I would have preferred that they came on board (obviously), I'm just stating fact that it's not my product, and is not the same product.. Going forward though, Blue Tube 2.0 is protected though.

Everything I said is fact folks... So before anyone accuses me of being accusatory, make sure the accused is not being accused of something that isn't accusable. :)

Sincerely,

Randy

P.S. Even as I write this I am expecting to recieve components from GLR, which work wonderfully with my product. Love the Pinnacle nose cones..
 

rejma0415

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I would even go so far as to say that if GLR and RAH came on board with Blue Tube 2.0, I would be very excited about it!! Furthermore, I would even be able explore the possibility of lowering retail and dealer pricing across the entire line, nationwide, due to the quantity increases. That is something that would benefit everyone!

Just a thot!
 

UMRS

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Having done this for a very long time, I would never "clear up" customer concerns in a public forum.

Customer issues should be kept and solved between you and the individual customer.

And as someone who knows Dave from RAH personally, he is the last person who would be trying to and I quote "I have had no communication with Red Arrow Hobbies, but it is also my understanding that they sell a copycat product as well. " Your copycat statement is implying hes selling YOUR stuff under his own brand.

Im very sorry but I find the entire tone of your original post accusatory. This is not something that should be aired in the open. If people are infringing on your "copyright" than sue them.

Why would you bring that fight here?
 

rejma0415

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Well the reason that I did it publicly was because it has happened more than once. I don't want to sue anyone over anything. I just want to clear the air. There is some brand confusion and although overly empassioned, my frustrations are valid. Again:

1. I never said anyone was using my brand name.
2. There is nothing slanderous or libel about me saying someone having a copycat product.
3. Blue Tube 1.0 is not a protected product and people can try to copy it all they want.
4. Nobody has done anything illegal.

I understand your point, and if it happened once, yes you are totally correct. I just don't want my brand, pricing structure, or product associated with whatever anyone else has out there.

I publicly apologize only for my frustrations, but after so many e-mails, it was a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of thing. I was kind of over it.

Maybe I should have run some laps and vented first, but if there wasn't duplicate prodcuts out there that confused people, none of this would be happening.

Sincerely,

Randy
 

UMRS

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Randy

I dont think you need to really say sorry, Im just concerned that after the sherris hot rockets situation that we dont have another vendor meltdown.

I understand the frustration, I just dont feel it needs to be aired.

:)
 

Pat_B

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I don't know the parties involved here but it's obvious from your statements that your customers are getting confused about your product. It was totally unecessary for you to bring in the names of other rocket companies when trying to clear the air. They didn't do anything wrong.

I also think the hype surrounding this product is way overdone in light of the warpage issues that even you have to address.
 
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rejma0415

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I don't know the parties involved here but it's obvious from your statements that your customers are getting confused about your product. It was totally unecessary for you to bring in the names of other rocket companies when trying to clear the air. They didn't do anything wrong.

I also think the hype surrounding this product is way overdone in light of the warpage issues that even you have to address.


One thing I can certainly agree with is the hype over the warping! Yes the confusion is coming from the fact that originally, more than several people think that GLR and RAH were Blue Tube Dealers. I just got so frustrated with the fact that this kept happening, which is why I went public with it. As I have said in previous threads, nobody has done anything illegal that I am aware of. I'm just trying to clear the air. They are not dealers, they are always welcome to be, and again, whatever product they have or had is not the same thing. It was necessary to mention their names only to clarify that they did not carry my product. The warpage comparisons are what they are.

My goal was not to cause stress, chaos and getting e-mails with legaleze in them, I just got frustrated and the last e-mail I got from yet ANOTHER confused customer that somehow, someway, thinks that GLR carried Blue Tube, was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Imagine my frustration..

So, for the record, Blue Tube 1.0 is discontinued, but is still an excellent product. Any dealer that has anything left, follow my construction advice on my site and you will have a strong, straight rocket or I will replace it for free. Just don't go building any 2x upscale Mean Machines, eth else is just fine. :)

Blue Tube 2.0 is much improved and I am extremely excited to offer this product to the community.

I'm kinda done talking about it. I've made my points to the public, I've defended my position, apologized for the tone. I'd like to put this to bed.

IMHO it's time to move on.

P.S. I would like to retract the time frame in the bent tube picture on my site. That was not one hour of humidity exposure, that was two. Thanx to a keen eyed forum member for point out my mistake from Don Huff's post. I apologize for that. After one hour it was about half as warped.
 

shrox

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I doubt Blue Tube tastes like chicken...maybe old beef jerky.
 

kramer714

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Patent,
Trade Mark,
Copyright,

Demonstrate (the differences, why it is better)
Identify (not just a color but make sure your tube is unmistakable, core wraps?)

advertise what you have,

and then people will buy your product, no confusion.

If someone violates your

Patent,
Trade Mark,
Copyright,

Then you get them to stop.

Can blue tube be registered as Blue Tube? (USPTO)


just my thoughts
 

The EGE

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I just have one question: Any chance of seeing Blue Tube in 24mm? I've got a couple longneck designs that could really use it.
 

rejma0415

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Patent,
Trade Mark,
Copyright,

Demonstrate (the differences, why it is better)
Identify (not just a color but make sure your tube is unmistakable, core wraps?)

advertise what you have,

and then people will buy your product, no confusion.

If someone violates your

Patent,
Trade Mark,
Copyright,

Then you get them to stop.

Can blue tube be registered as Blue Tube? (USPTO)


just my thoughts
I thought the content on my site was clear about the differences of Blue Tube vs. regular vf / fishpaper in material and construction. I do the inside wrap. It's nice, looks professional.

I think it would be a lot of fun to have people suggest things for me to do to it (see if it can hold up a car or something).. Maybe it will, maybe it won't I dunno but it would be fun to try!

:)

Randy
 

shrox

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I thought the content on my site was clear about the differences of Blue Tube vs. regular vf / fishpaper in material and construction. I do the inside wrap. It's nice, looks professional.

I think it would be a lot of fun to have people suggest things for me to do to it (see if it can hold up a car or something).. Maybe it will, maybe it won't I dunno but it would be fun to try!

:)

Randy
See if a train wheel will cut it.
 

rejma0415

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LOL yeah right! If a penny gets all smashed to hell, whatdoyathink's gonna happen?

I got a nice compact digital hd camcorder so I'll be playing around in the next few weeks with my Blue Tube 2.0 rocket jackstand idea. LOL

It may fail miserably..

...but it may not! I honestly don't know what is going to happen.
 

The EGE

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Build a bridge to cross a small stream. Have your local high school football team cross it.

The train thing sounds good, but getting permission might be tough.
 

rejma0415

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It absolutely positivley without a doubt, would not shatter. It would flatten, then cut at the train wheel's edge. Actually since Blue Tube 2.0 isn't made with any heat cured adhesives, it would never shatter no matter what you did to it, when it fails, it just collapses. Try sanding or tearing it. You'll come up with all kinds of new swear words in the process.



RJE
www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com
 

stickershock23

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I did find out the HARD WAY that blue tube 1.0 WILL CRACK if pressurized fast enough from the inside.... I had a 3.0 big daddy made of a leftover piece
Flew it on a F50T it catoed on the pad. blew the tube into 3 pieces..
But it was a major boom in a small area.

I am sure any other tube on the market would have done the same thing or even worse.

I Imagine, Blue tube 2.0 will be even better. THe stuff is AWESOME period.
 

Pantherjon

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Once I get my design for my L3 rocket shaped up I will be looking at getting some Blue Tube for it..Do you do fin slot cutting Randy?

May just get a couple of tubes to 'mess with' to get a feel for it first prior to building the L3 monster. ;)
 

MarkII

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So if I wanted to cut down some 3" Blue Tube 2.0, for example, what could I use (besides a train wheel)? How hard is it to cut?

MarkII
 
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