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Getting the LEUP!!!!

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marvSRG

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OK here's the dumb question. I just turned 18 and I am planning on certifying L-1 this month @ the ROCC launch. My prefect is going to get my motor for me for the cert, but as for buying from my certification on I'm kinda stuck....I need a LEUP. How do I obtain one? And dare I ask....do you have to be 21? If y'all could give me the info that'd be great. I don't wanna have to turn to hybrids, but I may have to.......

Thanx
 

Johnnie

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21 is the number...you can drive a tank in the Army, vote, or even die for your country in the line of battle at 18, but you are not a legal adult till you are 21...
 

UhClem

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I was going to say that you must be 21 and then quote the regulations.

But.....

In looking at the regulations, the requirement that you be 21 seems to have vanished. 27 CFR 555.49 lists the requirements for getting a permit. Until May 2003 there was a requirement that you be 21. The rules that took effect then do not have that requirement. Instead it says:


"(i) The applicant (or, if the applicant is a corporation,
partnership, or association, each responsible person with respect to the
applicant) is not a person described in any paragraph of section 842(i)
of the Act;"


842(i) doesn't mention age. The safe explosives act added aliens, dishonarable discharge, and renounciation of citizenship to the prohibited list but it didn't add age.

But 842(d) prohibits distribution of explosives to those under 21. I am not sure why they kept 842(d) in the code because those restrictions are pretty much meaningless now that everyone must have a permit. Except that it has that restriction on age.

If you felt like gambling the non-refundable $25 permit fee you could try for a limited permit. Then when they refuse to issue the permit, make them justify it. When they say you must be 21, force to them to cite the law.

It could be very entertaining. :)

****. If I were only younger I would try this.
 

shockwaveriderz

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did anybody notice this requiremnet:

(viii) The applicant for a license has
submitted the certificate required by
section 21 of the Federal Water Pollution
Control Act, as amended (33 U.S.C.
1341).

HUh?
 

UhClem

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shockie,

Yes, I have seen it. It is a general requirement for each and every permit issued for any reason whatsoever.

It only applies if you might discharge waste into a navigable waterway

" Any applicant for a Federal license or permit to conduct any activity including, but not limited to, the construction or operation of facilities, which may result in any discharge into the navigable waters,...."

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/1341.html

Don't worry about it.
 

marvSRG

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Thanks guys for that quick and informative response. Here's the next part- how do I go about getting it? I just may try the $25 non-refundable temporary permit. Also, the big stupid question- where is all of that info that you guys cited from? I know I should be more up on all of this permit/BATF stuff, but frankly, it hasn't affected me up until now (certification time) so I've stayed out of it. Didn't even keep up with the trial and all. Thanks for the help again, and if you could give me this last bit of info that'd be great.

Thanx!
 

rocketkid88

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I don't know anything about this myself really, but a while ago when i saw somewhere that a LEUP was needed to get a G33 i looked into it some, and i have this aplication. it has a bunch of regs at the bottom, and i didn't bother to read them right now so im not sure that they will help much, but i hope so!
Keep us posted on what you do!
 

Johnnie

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Just to quote from the ATF page, and I provided a helpfull link at the bottom of this page, 21 is the magic number...



5400.15 (Part III), accompanied by the required fee,
with ATF in accordance with the instructions on the
(a) The Chief, Firearms and Explosives
Licensing Center, shall issue a license or permit if
(1) a properly executed application for the license or
permit is received, and (2) through further inquiry or
investigation, or otherwise, it is found that the
applicant is entitled to the license or permit. The
license or permit and one copy will be forwarded to
the applicant, except that in the case of a user-limited
permit, the original only shall be issued. Each
license or permit will bear a serial number and this
number may be assigned to the licensee or
permittee to whom issued for as long as he
maintains continuity of renewal in the same region.
(b) The Chief, Firearms and Explosives
Licensing Center, shall approve a properly executed
application for a license or permit, if:

(1) The applicant is 21 years of age or over;

(2) The applicant (including, in the case of a
corporation, partnership, or association, any
individual possessing, directly or indirectly, the
power to direct or cause the direction of the
management and policies of the corporation,
partnership, or association) is not a person to whom
distribution of explosive materials is prohibited under
the Act;

http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/index.htm
 

UhClem

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Johnnierkt,

You have quoted obsolete regulations. For some reason the BATFE has not updated the references on their web site. You must go to the GPO web site to read the federal explosives laws that include the changes from the Safe Explosives Act.

Go to: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-table-search.html

Scroll down to Title 27 and select the most recent version. (Currently 1 April 2003). Then select "200 to end" followed by "part 555", Commerece in Explosives. You can now read the various parts of the regulations as they currently stand. In particular, look at 555.49. It now has two sections. One valid until 24 May 2003 and the other after that.

Other references:

I usually look up Federal Law at:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/

But they still haven't updated it to include the Homeland Security Act:
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/hsa2002.pdf

ATF web site:
http://www.atf.gov/

National Licensing Center:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nlc/

Which is where you are supposed to request your permit application.
 

marvSRG

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'Preciate it guys. I'll look into this soon!

Thanx
 

Johnnie

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Definetly order the application, as it comes with the fingerprint cards, and misc. app's needed for the LEUP.

I don't claim to be an expert by no means, as I too am making the journey, but since they are tightening the belt on explosives, I would not think they would lower the age requirements...but then again, if it is misworded, and the age limit missed their editors, then one could exploit the loop hole...but I bet they'll play the loop hole game better than you or I.

When in doubt, call the field agent working your region, as you will have to deal with that person eventually, and they will tell you like it is. (period)

Good luck marvSRG...
 
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