Getting back into the hobby - saying Hello!

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AlexK

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Greetings, all!

Just writing this to say 'hi' and 'watch out for someone asking sillier questions than have ever been asked before.'

I'm just getting back into the hobby - I haven't flown anything in almost ten years, mostly due to school, although I did manage to snag an NAR L1 cert back in '03. (THOY Falcon, AT H180 - beautiful flight!). My only other HPR project is a DG&A Armageddon (in case it wasn't obvious I did my rocket building a few years ago), which I glassed partly as a way to learn the technique and partly so I could cram as big a motor as I dared in there. I used to be active on the old Rocketry Online forums, up until 2004 or so, and I'm amazed at how far the hobby has gone. I still think of motors in terms of "LEUP or non-LEUP!" Along the way I snagged a propulsion degree - working on Electric Propulsion. Nowadays I work on experiments that fly on the space station. I'm various levels of fanboy for manned spaceflight, especially the launch vehicles, and ESPECIALLY the Saturn V.

Since I 'just' have an L1 I'm planning to start out small for now - fly a few more H- and I- class birds, play with electronics, maybe build an 'odd' configuration or two (I'd love to do parallel staging with strap-on separation), then move up into L2, L3 and EX. Eventually I want to be making candy, then move into other propellants... possibly even liquids (infrastructure allowing).

I've been reading the forums a fair bit, given all the changes - one of my first 'new' purchases will be a set of 38mm cases, and I'm trying to decide AT or CTI (leaning AT - I like lower cost-per-load, and I *really* like White Lightning). Whether the club has a vendor with a specific set will naturally be a big deal, though. I have a few questions/clarifications which I want to post here - and avoid a bazillion threads everywhere else. So without further ado:

1: What happened to Animal Motor Works? People are talking like the motors are scarce, and I'm not finding mention in vendor/manufacturer lists.
2: It's nice to see Estes is in the MPR business again. When did they start licensing Aerotech's E, F, and G motors?
3: In my search for a set of casings, I focused on AT and CTI (and their compatible third-party vendors). Loki research didn't exist when I last flew, so they're very new to me, and I'd like to know a bit more (that I didn't find perusing the 'propulsion' forum). I'm given to understand Loki motors have reusable graphite nozzles. What is the effective lifetime on the nozzles, given commercial loads? Loki cases seem to be a lot more 'mix and match' which is really speaking to my inner experimentalist - obviously anything I buy would be flown with commercial loads, but for long-term planning purposes, how are the Loki cases for EX loads?
4: Do hybrids fly much any more, or have they fallen by the wayside now that we don't need a LEUP for our APCP fix?

That's all for now - I'm sure I'll ask lots more questions as appropriate (or inappropriate!) in the coming weeks. Hopefully there are a couple members of Tri-City Skybusters or Tripoli Northern Ohio around - I'd love to be able to talk to some locals ahead of the next club meetings!
 
Welcome back. I will try to answer some of your questions and others can fill in:

1. AMW owner Paul Robinson passed away (https://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/2009/10/amw-co-owner-paul-robinson-passes-away.html?m=1) and their old website is gone. Before passing he established a partnership with CTI so many of his formulas could live on through their product line. Paul's partner Robert DeHate still sells AMW hardware and reloads at www.amwprox.com.

2. About a year ago product began to enter the market from the Estes-Aerotech partnership.

3. Loki motors and hardware are an excellent choice for both commercial and research flying. Their graphite nozzles are similar to the AMW solution you first referenced. The new owner of Loki, Scott Kormeier, just went through an upgrade of all his hardware designs including a higher quality graphite used in the nozzles.

4. Hybrids still fly, but less so after the legal ruling.
 
3: In my search for a set of casings, I focused on AT and CTI (and their compatible third-party vendors). Loki research didn't exist when I last flew, so they're very new to me, and I'd like to know a bit more (that I didn't find perusing the 'propulsion' forum). I'm given to understand Loki motors have reusable graphite nozzles. What is the effective lifetime on the nozzles, given commercial loads? Loki cases seem to be a lot more 'mix and match' which is really speaking to my inner experimentalist - obviously anything I buy would be flown with commercial loads, but for long-term planning purposes, how are the Loki cases for EX loads?

Its good to have you back, heaven knows we need to grow this hobby more.

Really you cant go wrong with any of the motor systems listed. It really will come down to a matter of preference. Although if you like the white motors you cant go wrong with Loki, by far the most impressive loads of any type, especially the whites. And you really cant beat the 9 of the 16 38mm reloads are Hazmat free.

TA
 
TRA NAR v. BATFE It took like 10 years but the ATF lost the court case. Tried to regulate Ammonia Perchlorate Composite Propellant as an explosive without due process among other things.
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone!

I have to say, I'm liking Loki more and more based on the replies so far... I'll admit that my enjoyment of white propellants is largely driven by the little kid-version of myself watching Shuttle launches and having that huge, white flame and plume permanently imprinted on my brain. It's not *quite* as visually appealing as an RP-1 flame, but that's rather a different beast. Aside from mining the information directly from cert data, is there a table or listing somewhere of the different Loki propellants and their thrust/burn characteristics? From the reload data tables it looks like they go (slow-fast) red - spitfire - white - blue. Is that correct?

Next: with regards to AT-compatible cases, are they fully part-compatible, or does one have to stick to a single brand to be able to interchange parts? ie can I buy, say, an AT 38/360 and 38/720 case with the closures, and then reuse those closures if in the future I bought a Rouse-Tech 1080Ns case?
 
I have to say, I'm liking Loki more and more based on the replies so far... I'll admit that my enjoyment of white propellants is largely driven by the little kid-version of myself watching Shuttle launches and having that huge, white flame and plume permanently imprinted on my brain. It's not *quite* as visually appealing as an RP-1 flame, but that's rather a different beast. Aside from mining the information directly from cert data, is there a table or listing somewhere of the different Loki propellants and their thrust/burn characteristics? From the reload data tables it looks like they go (slow-fast) red - spitfire - white - blue. Is that correct?

Scott Kormeier, the man behind Loki, participates here, as do a few of his dealers, so you'll be able to get questions answered, and other information, very easily.

Next: with regards to AT-compatible cases, are they fully part-compatible, or does one have to stick to a single brand to be able to interchange parts? ie can I buy, say, an AT 38/360 and 38/720 case with the closures, and then reuse those closures if in the future I bought a Rouse-Tech 1080Ns case?

Because the Rouse-Tech cases are made to AeroTech's specs, and AeroTech has certified them as such, the parts are compatible. AeroTech, Rouse-Tech, Dr Rockets -- parts can be interchanged between similar sized cases for all three.

The biggest "gotcha" is remembering that there's a 29mm hobby-line (29/40-120 case) and a 29mm HPR line, and parts between the two are not interchangeable between those two lines. So, a Dr Rockets 29mm HPR rear closure will fit a Rouse-Tech 29mm HPR case, but an AeroTech 29mm hobby-line closure will not.

-Kevin
 
Welcome. Great points, Kevin.

Aerotech / Rouse tech are great. Research CTI if you are starting back. They tend to be easier to assemble.
 
Hello Alex K, I am an officer with Tri-City Skybusters, (its been shortend to Skybusters), welcome back. We fly with NOTRA (Northern Ohio Tripoli) and try to fly twice a month weather permitting, which hasn't been co-operating lately. Looking forward to seeing you at a launch once the weather brakes. Also, if it helps your decision we have a Cesaroni vendor in the area for motor supplies.
 
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