# Gasoline Powered Hybrids?????

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#### Lowpuller

##### Well-Known Member
I really want to give a hybrid a try, can somebody please point me!

I doubt any of these are still available.

#### vance2loud

##### Well-Known Member
I think there are regulations against liquid fuel but I could be wrong.
I think Hypertek are still available, Contrail also make a hybrid system.
As far as I know all commercial systems use a solid fuel grain with a gas oxidiser.
I am sure there are others they are just the first 2 which came to my mind.
Hopefully some people with experience in hybrids will add to the list and suggest a good starting point.
Here is a post on here about sunward selling hypertek now

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#### bobkrech

##### Well-Known Member
You can drive a gasoline powered hybrid to the launch field but you can't launch one. AFAIK you can use methanol, ethanol and isopropyl alcohol as the fuel because alcohol fires can be extinguihhed with water whereas gasoline fires can not be extinguished by water.....

#### markkoelsch

##### Well-Known Member
You could also look up the RATT Works Tribrid.

#### G_T

##### Well-Known Member
Which is unfortunately unobtainium...

#### markkoelsch

##### Well-Known Member
Which is unfortunately unobtainium...
I know it is, but it is an interesting piece of history.

#### mikec

##### Well-Known Member
I'd start by reading the product manuals from Hypertek and Contrail, which AFAIK are the only two that are still even sort of in production.

Hybrids are pretty involved. Finding someone who's already flying them and learning from them would be the best approach.

#### BuiltFromTrash

##### Well-Known Member
Didn't Aerotech do hybrids at some point, then drop them?

#### markkoelsch

##### Well-Known Member
Didn't Aerotech do hybrids at some point, then drop them?
AT did do a hybrid. Their hybrid was filled before you put it in the rocket, and used a pyro burst disk as I recall.

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
The Aerotech hybrids used a black powder pellet as part of the valve system. The pellets were destroyed in the fire.
Sales numbers were not high enough to have more made.
Liquid motors and hybrids with oxidizers other than nitrous oxide may be launched at a Tripoli Research launch but requires pre approval from the BoD. Both have happened.

M

#### Lowpuller

##### Well-Known Member
The AT documents are exactly the type of information I was looking for. I never would have known to look for hybrids at AT.

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
The AT documents are exactly the type of information I was looking for. I never would have known to look for hybrids at AT.

Early 2000's, some possible safety violations and / or inspection gaps, fire, possible improper firefighting, death, lawsuits.

#### rstaff3

##### Oddroc-eteer
Motor shortage, some manufacturing temporarily moved to Texas, booms, new J350 design ensued

#### Lowpuller

##### Well-Known Member
Interesting, probably legal to sell the kit, legal to build the kit, just not legal to fly it????&#128563;&#128563;&#128563;&#128563;&#128563;

#### RocketFeller

Still got 'em? Want your $20 back? :-D #### RocketFeller ##### Well-Known Member Still got 'em? Want your$20 back? :-D
I believe I do, but I put away a big box of rocket magazines (where I think it is) so well I can't find it. Reorganizing the attic is high on my to-do list...

#### pyrobob

##### Well-Known Member
Aerotech had some 'classic' hybrids using an inert fuel (I believe paper) and nitrous with a small preheater APCP grain. They also had a version they referred to as a "Turbo", which were APCP grains (White Lightning?) throughout plus nitrous. I managed to witness an M Turbo demo and it was definitely cool. Not sure how many ever flew but glad I got to see one .

#### mikec

##### Well-Known Member
1) The SystemeSolaire liquid rocket engine is not very well thought-of in amateur circles, from what I've seen. Some threads about that on TRF.

2) It's not a hybrid, and there's technically no such thing as a "gasoline-powered hybrid". Hybrids are defined as having the fuel and oxidizer in two different states. All hybrids I know of have a solid fuel and a liquid/gaseous oxidizer (nearly always nitrous oxide). The RATTworks "tribrid" used alcohol as a second fuel.

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
Aerotech had some 'classic' hybrids using an inert fuel (I believe paper) and nitrous with a small preheater APCP grain. They also had a version they referred to as a "Turbo", which were APCP grains (White Lightning?) throughout plus nitrous. I managed to witness an M Turbo demo and it was definitely cool. Not sure how many ever flew but glad I got to see one .
My friend Robin did his level 3 cert flight using a turbo hybrid.
M

#### G_T

##### Well-Known Member
There are also liquid fuel, solid oxidizer hybrids. To my knowledge more a curiosity though. Gasoline could be used as the fuel for that case though I don't recommend it. A gaseous fuel is safer for that variant as it reduces oxidizer saturation with fuel in the event of a non-ignition or a leak. Fuel saturated oxidizer = explosive. There is also at least one solid->fuel gas generator -> solid oxidizer hybrid design being researched. That one is more interesting, and a lot safer.

Gerald

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#### karlbaum

##### Well-Known Member
I recommend Contrail for hybrid rocket motors. I have GSE that I sell. Here is a demonstration [video=youtube;vh3V2MvVK-w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh3V2MvVK-w&t=15s[/video] . What sets my GSE apart from others is that it has an integrated vent sensor that allows you to know for sure when the flight tank is full. I am perfectly willing to share my schematic in case you want to build your own GSE. Getting started in hybrids takes a significant investment. GSE can cost from $500 to$1000 and you will need motor hardware as well. The good news is that you can fly M motors for \$125 per flight and smaller motors for about half the cost of solids. If interested email me at karlbaum@comcast.net

#### kramer714

##### Well-Known Member
People ask me why I fly hybrids, my standard answer is 'geek masochism' Yes there are still hybrids available, Contrail, Ratt and Hypertek are still around. If you need Contrail contact Tom directly, for RATT and Hypertek, contact Ron at Black Dog Rocketry.

I STRONGLY suggest you find some one else that has hybrid experience and have them show you, plus group gse is a good plan. I am located in Southern California and launch at the ROC launches.

If you are starting out I would recommend the Contrail, followed by the RATT, these are a bit easier to use. One other thing, you need to have the right rocket for the hybrids, they can be longer burn lower thrust plus can be VERY long.

There has been an ongoing thread on hybrids titled hybrids for 2016, lots of pictures there.

Mike K

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#### samtc

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Late to this one..... Back in the Day, I did my Level 1 & Level 2 on a Hypertek J Hybrid. (You could do that in the dark ages) My Level 3 was done on the Hypertek Armageddon M with a 4.63 liter tank. I prefer the Hypertek to solids but will be the first to admit I have had more than my share of GSE issues. I am currently working on a modern GSE to eliminate the shortfalls. I am happy to answer any questions you might have.

-Sam