Gas Pipe...rockets

[tfish]

Back in 2002 I did not have much extra money and wanted to do my L3. I ended up finding a bunch of scrap pieces of 'gas pipe' (used for under ground fuel tanks) tubing. It's an odd size..and made out of wound fiberglass. It was free. I made a nose cone mold (my first and it was really funky)

My L3 rocket...Speedy Gonzales .. was 3.5" diameter and 85" long. with a 75mm motor mount.



Here's the AeroPac newsletter with my L3 story on page 3 https://aeropac.org/Newsletters/v14n1.pdf

I crashed speedy on it's 45th flight. 40 of those flights were M motors..I'm not sure why it crashed..no event at apogee and way to fast when the main did deploy.

Anyway the above is just to explain this pipe can be used just takes some work and thinking to make rockets out of it.


It comes in 3 different sizes

I'm now making 2 identical rockets with 54mm motor mounts. These 2 rockets will be used to fly research propellants. I'd like to compare actual flights of a 'stock' formula to a 'slightly changed' formula. Both rockets will have dual recording altimeters also.
The first step was to make a new nose cone mold ..I sort of cheated and started with a plastic LOC 3" nose cone. I used some old 4x4 redwood post added to the 3" LOC to bring it up to the 3.5" diameter I needed. some bondo filler and the plug came together very quickly. The below photos show the plug once pulled frorm the mold. Some paint..OK..lots of paint and bondo stayed in the mold.



..more tomorrow...

Tony

 

[Jimbooregon]

I like your inventiveness... Go for it mon.

 

[tfish]

Making the mold was straight forward.
I did change up my normal fabric layup..several layers 3-7 layers of 6 oz cloth..which takes a lot of time to do. For the first nose cone I did one layer (which is 3 skinny long pieces) and then a single layer of Knytex. Which is a cool mat material. At 25 oz per yard...it replaces most of my normal layers of 6 oz glass. I get it local from TAP plastics and it's fairly cheap. I've used it before, to make a mold and speakers our clubs PA system. https://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/carbon_specialty_fabrics/knytex_x_mat/91


The flimsy green stuff is the 4 coats of PVA release. The PVA washes off with water...and is re-applied for each layup. The fluorescent green is clay smoothing over some air bubble voids in the mold. To back up a tad...the paint and bondo that was stuck in the mold was remover quickly with a pressure washer.

Fins cut from .093 G10 from ebay. Note the label on the G10..it was meant to be part of a rocket!



The body tubes are one piece 42" long. If I need/want to do dual deploy it will be via "dual ended deployment sack with reefed zip tie cutters'... "DEDSwRZTC" : ) The tubes do need to sanding to remove/smooth out the way to much wavy epoxy. This took about 5 min to do on a lathe with some 60 grit. Not perfect but it will work for what these rockets will be used for. The tube on the left was sanded. Then I played around with a quick clear coat to make sure they would return to their cool honey color.


I was able to set up my table saw to cut the fin slots..later today..

Tony

 

[kjhambrick]

Very interesting, Tony.

I bought a 5 -or- 6 foot section of similar glass tubing with a beautiful hardwood nose cone 'real cheap' way back when at a Tripoli Vegas or a ROC launch ( can't remember which ).

This tubing has more of a walnut finish than straw and it is nowhere near 3.5 inch diameter.

It's been over 20 years since I've looked at it but it seemed to be about 2.5 inch diameter with very thick walls.

I do remember trying my RMS 54/2560 motor case in it and did fit in the tube with just a little 'wiggle room'.

I'll have to get it down from the Rocket Loft to take a picture.

I'll be watching your thread here for inspiration !

Thanks !

-- kjh

 

[pugachu]

Tony,

I remember chatting with you about speedy on the Rocketry Online chat ~ 20 years ago. You and Tom Cloud taught me a lot about wrapping my own composite rockets, and making my own nosecones and molds. Good memories.

 

[tfish]

Tony,

I remember chatting with you about speedy on the Rocketry Online chat ~ 20 years ago. You and Tom Cloud taught me a lot about wrapping my own composite rockets, and making my own nosecones and molds. Good memories.

Funny you found this thread and mentioned it. Glad I and Tom could be of help. If you saw the AeroPac newsletter in my first post regarding my L3 cert flight. The next story was...stories about Tom..for his memorial...

Tony
.

 

[tfish]

@kjh

That size is referred to as 2". I have some of that tube also..a peeled down 54mm cardboard motor mount can be slid inside...
The below photo is how far along that project is...



Tony

 

[tfish]

....I'm starting this post off with full disclosure!...
I...screwed up....measuring..calculating ..measuring and more calculating!

I made my fin tabs way to short....and discovered it after cutting out all 6 fins!
I gave though to many fixes..cut out 6 more correct fins..surface mount the fins (I'm really good at that!) ..shorten the fin semi-span to make the tabs 1/2" longer...or..
Glue down some 1/2×1/2 hardwood runners..is what I went with.

You can also see my anchor point, white thing rail button screw block and maybe a couple of blind nuts for motor retainer screw.



The tubes had the fin slots added this morning via table saw and that triangle jig gizmo.
Motor mounts have been glued in and the first fin is currently taxed in and drying.

Tony

 

[kjhambrick]

@kjh

That size is referred to as 2". I have some of that tube also..a peeled down 54mm cardboard motor mount can be slid inside...
The below photo is how far along that project is...

View attachment 613976

Tony

@tfish --

That looks about the same as the one I have.

The Label says it is a Dualoy 3000/L Pipe by Ameron in Houston, TX along with a table of nominal ID and properties.


This is the nose ( it has dried out some in my TX attic )


And this is a Dr Rocket RMS 54/852 in the tail:

The casing s a little wiggly but just like you said, It feels like I could peel a 54mm LOC MMT and slide it in to shim the motor properly ...

I'll be watching your build !

I've already watched your nose cone mold / layup videos and I wanted to try it.

Maybe this is the tube for a min diameter 54mm rocket with HED and a Deployment Sack behind a hand-laid nose cone ...

Thanks for reminding me that I had these goodies, Tony !

-- kjh

EDIT: p.s. the nose is 12.5 inches long with a nice 2.75 inch shoulder that fits pretty well and the pipe is 60 inches long.

 

[tfish]

@tfish --

That looks about the same as the one I have.

The Label says it is a Dualoy 3000/L Pipe by Ameron in Houston, TX along with a table of nominal ID and properties.
View attachment 614118

This is the nose ( it has dried out some in my TX attic )
View attachment 614119

And this is a Dr Rocket RMS 54/852 in the tail:
View attachment 614121
The casing s a little wiggly but just like you said, It feels like I could peel a 54mm LOC MMT and slide it in to shim the motor properly ...

I'll be watching your build !

I've already watched your nose cone mold / layup videos and I wanted to try it.

Maybe this is the tube for a min diameter 54mm rocket with HED and a Deployment Sack behind a hand-laid nose cone ...

Thanks for reminding me that I had these goodies, Tony !

-- kjh

EDIT: p.s. the nose is 12.5 inches long with a nice 2.75 inch shoulder that fits pretty well and the pipe is 60 inches long.

What's the ID measurement of your tubing?

Tony

 

[kjhambrick]

What's the ID measurement of your tubing?

Tony

Tony --

I get

ID: 2.210 -to- 2.220 inch
OD: 2.378 -to 2.389 inch

As you noted above the outside of the tube has ridges

-- kjh

 

[tfish]

Tony --

I get

ID: 2.210 -to- 2.220 inch
OD: 2.378 -to 2.389 inch

As you noted above the outside of the tube has ridges

-- kjh

my OD is 2.228 ish.

I like your nose cones shape way better then what I'm working with.

Any interest in loaning me your wooden nose cone to pull a mold off of?

we can take this to a msg if you want or we can talk here.

Tony

 

[kjhambrick]

PM sent

 

[tfish]

I had a bit of rocketry deja vu today. I recalled making 2 identical rockets at the same time in the past.
I found what I was looking for in an old photo album my daughter kept on our rocketry adventures. She may have been 11 years old then.



In 2002 I had made a twin to L3 Rocket Speedy. It was a gift for Dennis M..a rocket buddy of mine from Denver. I hung out with a bunch of EX guys back then. Woody, Jim Amos. Wickman..who all flew AN research motors. 2 identical gas pipe rockets back in 2002 and identical gas pipe rockets again in 2023.


Today was spent attaching fins. A simple jig to get them straight and true.


At this point is when we get to really see the rockets "lines". I really like the size and looks of these rockets.


Tony

 

[Burner]

Awesome Tony, just a couple weeks ago I was at my parents house and rediscovered some of this gas pipe you gave me many years ago. I brought several sections home and plan to make some similar rockets with my boys.

 

[tfish]

Awesome Tony, just a couple weeks ago I was at my parents house and rediscovered some of this gas pipe you gave me many years ago. I brought several sections home and plan to make some similar rockets with my boys.

Funny you should reply..came across this in our old photo Album..


What..size pipe do you have?

Tony

 

[Burner]

Funny you should reply..came across this in our old photo Album..

View attachment 614278

What..size pipe do you have?

Tony

Good memories. If I recall correctly that was flying on a 98-10k red load.

You gave me a couple different sizes, roughly 2” and 3.5” I believe. You even gave me one of your earlier fiberglass nose cones for the smaller pipe.

 

[tfish]

Got the fins attached....
Cut out the 2 pieces of 6oz cloth for each fin side. Not really tip to tip...more like 1/3, 2/3.
I changed my normal fillets from ...Raka HP epoxy and with chopped up fiberglass to...what I did on this year's Balls project...which was normal size Rocketpoxy with the 1/3-2/3 over them while still soft ..
This layup impressed me...rocket simmed to Mach 3..but lost nose cone and recovery bay on the way up. "Motor worked".. @MClark saying..and continued on its way..landed hard..with no recovery gear.. fins still attached..
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/98mm-subminimum-diameter.162595/page-3#post-2494660
Thanks to Braden @UPscaler here is a short video of the up part...that 'little' wiggle is the rocket shedding the nose cone and recovery bay/gear.





Taped off fins to aid in cloth placement and clean up. Glass and peel ply..ready.



On boxes..makes turning them and clean up easier.


Rocketpoxy


Glassed and peel ply





Ready for sanding and filling..



Tony

 

[tfish]

I have been working on these rockets.
Did the rough sanding and filling..and some more sanding.. I have the painting supplies..needs some good weather now.



I've also been working on the deployment brains..easy mini. ARTS and egg finder GPS. Nose cone sleds.



And the heart of the project ..easy motor.
I think I figured out how to do this with Aeropac hardware..



Made a AT FC with an 1/8" pipe port. Held in place with AT 54FCRR.

For the nozzle I went with graphite. Besides of the normal "sealing method" I added an additional radial (?) Oring to the noz. This was added to help prevent heat soak from the graphite noz. Doing this, took up .400" of space inside the case.....ie 0.4 shorter liner and 0.4 less propellant. Which helps some with getting a neutral burning with the graphite noz.



It's coming together..

Tony

 

[pugachu]

Tony,

I like your nozzle cutting tool. Do you have info on it buried in the 'research' section? I've only cut graphite single point with a boring bar with the compound rest on an angle. Your tool looks like it'd make quick work of a graphite nozzle. (may chatter on steel for the sugar folks)

 

[tfish]

Tony,

I like your nozzle cutting tool. Do you have info on it buried in the 'research' section? I've only cut graphite single point with a boring bar with the compound rest on an angle. Your tool looks like it'd make quick work of a graphite nozzle. (may chatter on steel for the sugar folks)

see if this works/helps...

the shaft is 5/16..

I've got mad drawing skills!......haha

Tony

 

[tfish]

...added launch lugs and the divider..between the motor and.. easy motor..unit...which adds 6.5" to the motor. Can fly a 4 grain 54 with easy motor and divider in place. Added the easy motor screws switch to the divider along with making it the anchor point for recover..it's 10 ply .5" Birch plywood..




Painting has started...
@rfjustin


Finger painted (filling pin holes and divots) 1st coat of primer.


Tony

 

[kjhambrick]

Tony --

I've tried a search but nothing obvious comes up ...

What is an "easy motor" unit ?

Thanks !

-- kjh

 

[tfish]

Tony --

I've tried a search but nothing obvious comes up ...

What is an "easy motor" unit ?

Thanks !

-- kjh

A device made by Altus Metrum Easy Mega, Easy Mini etc..to record motor pressure and acceleration during flights or static testing.

https://altusmetrum.org/EasyMotor/




If the weather allows..I will be out Thursday-Friday static testing some motors.

Tony

 

[kjhambrick]

Thanks Tony !

I've been reading the docs for the EasyMotor System.

What a great addition to my rockets that will be for thrust / drag analysis thru the boost and coast phase of my flights !

Not to mention static motor testing when I get there.

I am sure I'll have more Qs but they can wait until my Level 2 Cert has been processed by TRA and I can get into the proper sub-forum.

Thanks for the link !

-- kjh

 

[tfish]

Flew them.. 4 grain 54mm..
Just under 8K 550 mph.. a tad fast on 60" home made flat chute..
Dual deploy with cable cutters.


Earned their paint..
..twin Gas Pipe rockets..named Regular and Supreme..




Also made bigger 78" Flat chutes and played around with jumbo marks alot and left over spray paint ..

Tony