Future Floor Polish - Problem

[Starfire73]

Yes, another Future floor polish post, but please bear with me.

I have been using Future floor polish to clear coat my rockets for years, especially the bigger ones. One main reason is that a clear rattle can will create overspray on a larger body tube. When I see that I'm chasing the edges-the overspray-because they aren't glossy, I know I should have used the floor polish.

The problem is I used it on my LOC EZI-65, 4" body tube and it looked fantastic for a few days, then one day I walked in to my hobby room and noticed the rocket didn't look right. On closer examination the rocket had gone a yellow/brown hue. It looked like it had been left in a small room with a chain smoker!

Have you ever had this happen to you? With all the rockets I have done this method with, I have never had this happen. The bottle is a few years old so I'm getting rid of it. That can't be the end of the story though, because I have finished rockets even as recent as a month ago with this polish and have never seen it turn like this. Any thoughts on what is going on? I tried stripping it from the nose cone with a Pine-Sol (A NON-CHLORINATED CLEANER)/Ammonia/Water mix. REMINDER TO ALL - DO NOT MIX CHLORINE AND AMMONIA! The nose cone appearance improved a lot, but it's not perfect and it took a lot of scrubbing. I think I'm going to leave the rest of the rocket as it is. I'm concerned I'll destroy the decal, destroy the body tube, or make the rocket look worse than it already does. It's not horrible, but it lost its vibrant sparkle.

In case you're wondering I gave the Rustoluem White and Blue paint at least a week to cure before applying the floor polish.

Your thoughts?

 

[cls]

I thought the Future bottle said use a light mix of ammonia and warm water to remove coats

Sorry about the yellowing, I hope someone posts about why that happened. I've never seen it.

 

[Back_at_it]

I've not seen it yellow that quickly but it's not uncommon to see it yellow over the course if a couple of years. I personally stopped using it as the soot from the ejection gets trapped in it and won't come off forcing you to strip and recoat which isn't an easy process. I'm personally not a fan.

 

[prfesser]

Have you ever had this happen to you? With all the rockets I have done this method with, I have never had this happen. The bottle is a few years old so I'm getting rid of it. That can't be the end of the story though, because I have finished rockets even as recent as a month ago with this polish and have never seen it turn like this. Any thoughts on what is going on? I tried stripping it from the nose cone with a Pine-Sol (A NON-CHLORINATED CLEANER)/Ammonia/Water mix. REMINDER TO ALL - DO NOT MIX CHLORINE AND WATER! The nose cone appearance improved a lot, but it's not perfect and it took a lot of scrubbing. I think I'm going to leave the rest of the rocket as it is. I'm concerned I'll destroy the decal, destroy the body tube, or make the rocket look worse than it already does. It's not horrible, but it lost its vibrant sparkle.

I think you mean "don't mix chlorine (bleach, pool 'chlorine', etc.) and ammonia." Monochloramine (NH2Cl) and dichloramine (NHCl2) are formed. Both are gases and in an enclosed space they can be deadly. I *think* the combination has been a method of suicide in Japan, but I may be wrong on that.

 

[neil_w]

Hmm, I have never had yellowing. My oldest Futured rocket is now 7 years old, and I am still working on the same bottle of Future. I wonder what happened there.

 

[bibbster]

This came up in another hobby arena years ago. The formula for Future changed at some point, but I don't recall when, exactly, but I believe it was when the Pledge brand started being used on the label. The original formula had shown never to yellow, but the newer formula does.

I use it on brown, black, yellow, orange and red, but never on white or light colors or blue. For those I use clear acrylic or lacquer from a rattle can.

 

[neil_w]

The original formula had shown never to yellow, but the newer formula does.

Boy I hope that’s wrong.

 

[crossfire]

Can I clear coat from spray can after painted has dried?

 

[Back_at_it]

Can I clear coat from spray can after painted has dried?

Absolutely yes. I clear coat everything. But........!! You need to wait until the paint is CURED not dried. Curing can take days or even weeks depending on the weather. If you are working in a cool air conditioned basement then it can literally take a week or more. If it's 88F. degrees outside like it is here today then you can place the rocket in the sun and it will cure in a day or so.

You'll also want to test the clear coat that you are using on a scrap piece before using on the rocket. If your plan is to clear then you should spray a test piece with each color on you rocket. Wait until that is cured then clear over it to see if there is any reaction. If there is no reaction then you're good to use it on your rocket.

 

[crossfire]

Absolutely yes. I clear coat everything. But........!! You need to wait until the paint is CURED not dried. Curing can take days or even weeks depending on the weather. If you are working in a cool air conditioned basement then it can literally take a week or more. If it's 88F. degrees outside like it is here today then you can place the rocket in the sun and it will cure in a day or so.

You'll also want to test the clear coat that you are using on a scrap piece before using on the rocket. If your plan is to clear then you should spray a test piece with each color on you rocket. Wait until that is cured then clear over it to see if there is any reaction. If there is no reaction then you're good to use it on your rocket.

With the 2k brand clear they show spraying clear over top coat when it's still wet?

 

[Back_at_it]

If you are referring to 2K automotive type clears, they can be used much quicker. Some as quick as 45 mins. You pretty much just need to wait for the paint to flash off before applying the clear coat. If you are using real 2K paint out of a gun then that changes pretty much everything. Most folks here are using rattle cans and that was what my response was based on.

Shooting 2K from a gun is the way to go if you have the equipment. Typically we use to shoot on the color, wait for 45-90 mins depending on the weather then shoot on 4 to 6 coats of clear. Let that cure for a couple of days then cut and buff.

 

[Starfire73]

I think you mean "don't mix chlorine (bleach, pool 'chlorine', etc.) and ammonia." Monochloramine (NH2Cl) and dichloramine (NHCl2) are formed. Both are gases and in an enclosed space they can be deadly. I *think* the combination has been a method of suicide in Japan, but I may be wrong on that.

You are correct. I edited the original post.

 

[Starfire73]

This came up in another hobby arena years ago. The formula for Future changed at some point, but I don't recall when, exactly, but I believe it was when the Pledge brand started being used on the label. The original formula had shown never to yellow, but the newer formula does.

I use it on brown, black, yellow, orange and red, but never on white or light colors or blue. For those I use clear acrylic or lacquer from a rattle can.

Good policy. I think I will adopt it for myself.

 

[4regt4]

BTW, I stripped a nose cone of Pledge "whatever it's called today" with a quick wipe of isopropanol. Was obvious that the surface was removed.

Hans.

 

[Woody's Workshop]

And...The moral of the story is if you are going to use a floor finish over paint, expect abnormal results.
I still say a good paste wax is much better on top of paint...but that's just me.
I have decades of experience with fine auto finishes, but I admit I've never finished a floor in my life.
It's always good to experiment, but don't do it on something you value to highly until it's proven.

 

[neil_w]

And...The moral of the story is if you are going to use a floor finish over paint, expect abnormal results.
I still say a good paste wax is much better on top of paint...but that's just me.

Future has been used as a gloss coating by modelers for years and years. It is hardly a new, experimental procedure.

Regarding paste wax: sure it's great, but not practical for nooks and crannies on small or complex rockets. Also, I don't imagine that waxing over waterslide decals makes much sense. If you want to protect your decals you need something like Future or a spray clear.

So there are good reasons to like and use Future as a clear coat, despite it not being perfect, and not the best choice in all circumstances. If a formula change has really brought with it significantly worse performance regarding yellowing, that is really a shame and I will be crossing my fingers that I don't see this problem. My rockets are in storage in my basement and get very little UV exposure, I'm hoping that helps.

 

[Starfire73]

That’s the thing. It wasn’t an experiment, I’ve been using it for years. And, it’s not that it yellowed over time, it browned within about a week. Something made it react funny.

 

[neil_w]

Have you tried contacting SC Johnson to see if they know anything that could cause this?

 

[Dane Ronnow]

So there are good reasons to like and use Future as a clear coat, despite it not being perfect, and not the best choice in all circumstances. If a formula change has really brought with it significantly worse performance regarding yellowing, that is really a shame and I will be crossing my fingers that I don't see this problem. My rockets are in storage in my basement and get very little UV exposure, I'm hoping that helps.

I agree. The only rocket I have, I coated with Pledge Revive It Floor Gloss—the latest branding for SC Johnson's acrylic floor coating—just a few months ago. So I can't speak to the issue of yellowing with age, other than to say it certainly didn't within hours or days. I can speak to the durability by saying that after four landings on a dry lake bed, I have yet to see a single chip on the trailing edges and corners of the fins, or any marring of the nose cone. Wiped with a damp paper towel to remove the dirt, they look like they've just been coated.

As far as I'm concerned, launching from a lake bed, I couldn't ask for a better solution to protecting a rocket's finish, vinyl lettering included.

 

[Nathan]

Would you put floor polish on your car? No, because it would look like crap. So why do you put it on your rockets?

 

[Dane Ronnow]

Would you put floor polish on your car? No, because it would look like crap. So why do you put it on your rockets?

Strictly speaking, referring to this as 'floor polish' in the context of the discussion is irrelevant. It's an acrylic coating, plain and simple. When brushed on a rocket body, it hardens into a thin, very durable surface, completely clear and glossy. Two or three coats—at least a day apart—and your paint job is as near bullet proof as it can get.

But that's just my firsthand experience.

 

[Starfire73]

Would you put floor polish on your car? No, because it would look like crap. So why do you put it on your rockets?

Because it works great, and it looks great and as I said earlier, you don't have to chase the overspray (edges of your rattle can spray pattern) around your body tube.

 

[Starfire73]

Strictly speaking, referring to this as 'floor polish' in the context of the discussion is irrelevant. It's an acrylic coating, plain and simple. When brushed on a rocket body, it hardens into a thin, very durable surface, completely clear and glossy. Two or three coats—at least a day apart—and your paint job is as near bullet proof as it can get.

But that's just my firsthand experience.

Yeah, I love using it!

 

[Starfire73]

This conversation was not intended to debate the merits of using the floor polish. I'm convinced through experience with the product that it's a great way to go. I've not seen any evidence of yellowing over time, or any real negatives.

My issue is addressing one specific occurrence where it browned slightly after a few days.

 

[Exactimator]

I found this interesting and was thinking something in the hobby room must have reacted with the acrylic coating while it cured. I googled acrylic turning yellow and there's a bunch of info about acrylic fingernail polish turning yellow. Apparently UV light during drying time causes it, along with harsh chemical cleaners. Are there UV lights in your hobby room? Was bleach or something similar used in or near the room while it dried?

 

[tsmith1315]

completely clear and glossy.

and it looks great

Perspectives vary on such things. Nathan's expectations regarding quality of finish are very high and his results are impressive:



Check out this thread for the effort involved:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/upscale-onyx.135941/post-1630706

 

[AfterBurners]

I know everyone has their way of maintaining their rockets, but I never really got on with these idea of using Future floor polish. There are many other options and much better. Just a thought they sell that quick detailer spray from Maguire's and I know other company's have similar product/ It would be good to use to knock off the dust and has far as polish why not just use a easy to remove liquid wax? Try a small area of course before you do your entire rocket. As far as myself I just wipe them down and put them away.

 

[prfesser]

Strictly speaking, referring to this as 'floor polish' in the context of the discussion is irrelevant. It's an acrylic coating, plain and simple. When brushed on a rocket body, it hardens into a thin, very durable surface, completely clear and glossy. Two or three coats—at least a day apart—and your paint job is as near bullet proof as it can get.

But that's just my firsthand experience.

Firsthand experience counts for a lot, especially if it's reproducible, which Dane's work appears to be. Many consumer/industrial materials have multiple uses. Chlorine bleach, great for taking out many stains; it's also a good disinfectant for drinking water in an emergency. CA glues parts together quickly, also hardens nose cone tips and body tubes. Casein is a major component of some glues, and it's also used as a filler in pizza cheeze. If a floor polish works well on rockets, then it's also a rocket clearcoat, isn't it?

I'll be trying "Future" on the Super Big Bertha.

Best,
Terry

 

[Starfire73]

I found this interesting and was thinking something in the hobby room must have reacted with the acrylic coating while it cured. I googled acrylic turning yellow and there's a bunch of info about acrylic fingernail polish turning yellow. Apparently UV light during drying time causes it, along with harsh chemical cleaners. Are there UV lights in your hobby room? Was bleach or something similar used in or near the room while it dried?

What you mentioned is what I thinking is the probable cause. I did float the vinyl (EZI-65) decal on the painted surface using Windex. That could possibly have caused it. It doesn’t really explain why the nose cone and payload bay were affected to. But it’s something.

 

[Starfire73]

Perspectives vary on such things. Nathan's expectations regarding quality of finish are very high and his results are impressive:

Yes, that is an impressive finish on the rocket in the photo, but his reply came off a little arrogant.