Fruity Chutes testing new Pull Down Apex (toroidal) design

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(Egads! My first post)

Somewhat off topic but...

How and where is the pilot chute attached to the main? I can't tell from the photos.

StanO

Hi StanO, All our larger chutes have a little loop sewn onto the crown of the chute to attach a deployment bag.
 
Thanks for the update Gene. My rocket enthusiasm always gets the best of me and that is a crazy photo. :D
 
This great. Pulling down the apex of the chute has many benifits. Fills faster, more stable decent, lower decent rate, and the opening forces are more evenly distibuted. The only draw back is the ceterline mus be much heavier than the suspension lines as i takes an equal share of the load (especialy durring deployment). This can also be done with flat circular parachutes like the C-9 and T-10 Reserve, or any flat curcular that has apex lines.
 
The only draw back is the ceterline mus be much heavier than the suspension lines as i takes an equal share of the load (especialy durring deployment). .

Absolutely Jazzviper. We're using nylon webbing for the pull down which has a much higher breaking strength than the paracord risers.

----

A buddy of mine has a 9'4" Rage chute and borrowed it for some measurements. A few things struck me:

1 - While just a bit over 9' in diameter the risers (shroud lines) are just 72"!
2 - The center pull down was no stronger than the shroud lines.
3 - The skirt of the chutes was deep.

I'll post more information later but it was not as elegant a chute as I remember.

I should be getting some flight information in a week or two. He flew it at the April SR and I got the descent weight exactly. I just need the baro data and I can calculate the Cd.

----

So Sunday I cut the first 60" chute using the official toroidal pattern we developed. We'll be sewing it over the next week(s). It is even more compact than my prototype and a bit flatter compared to the diameter. The ratio of canopy area to projected frontal area is just 1.54:

Canopy Area 30.31 sq'
Pojeted Area 19.63 sq'
Area Ratio 1.54

This should lead to a efficient design especially considering the packing volume vs the rated descent weight @ 20fps.

More soon...
 
Hi all, I wanted to get a quick note in... I've done two more rounds of testing at TCC Dairy Air near Fresno CA on 5/20, 5/21. A very quick summary of two tests:

1 - New Toroidal 60" in Mag Max - Cd was 2.25. Descent weight was 16.1lbs and the descent speed was about 17.8fps as I recall. This chute is the production pattern and performed even better than the February test. I'll post photos later.

2 - 72" Prototype in my Comp 4 - Cd was 2.5. Descent weight was 23.7 lbs, I forgot the speed (don't have it handy). I think to some extent this was artificially high due to thermal activity. At one point under main descent the Cd would have been greater than 3.5. The 2.5 Cd was where the slope was steeper and seemed less affected. It's safe to say the Cd is at least 2.2.

I'll backfill more details later and photos. We're getting close to working up the final specs and pricing.

NOTE: If you want to be on the pre-order list email me at [email protected].

More on that soon...
 
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Here is the official update on the Toroidal chute testing...

DSC07787.jpg

Again Mag Max doing it's job lifting the 60" toroidal chute up to about 1800'. I flew on a J540. Mag Max weighs about 17 lbs in the pad.

DSC07793.jpg

This photo was taken a ways away so it's a little grainy. All these photos courtesy Bruce La Fetra. The new chute is more compact than the same size 60" elliptical.

DSC07794.jpg

This shows the entire recovery stack. I used tether dual deployment using the Tender Descender which we sell.

DSC07796.jpg

Here is a side view of the chute. These have a low profile and the center pull allows the skirt to spread way apart - hence it's efficiency.

-------------

So here are the results of three test flights using two different chutes designs, and two different rockets:

Rocket: Mag Max, J540R
Chute: IFC-72 Prototype
Date: 4/1/2011
Dia: 72"
Spill: 15"
Projected Area: 27 sq'
Desc Lbs: 15.53
Fps: 15.05
Cd: 2.14

Rocket: Mag Max, J540R
Chute: IFC-60 Production design
Date: 5/20/2011
Dia: 60"
Spill: 8.5"
Projected Area: 19.2 sq'
Desc Lbs: 16.1
Fps: 17.9
Cd: 2.2

Rocket: Push the Button (Comp 4), M2550
Chute: IFC-72 Prototype
Date: 5/21/2011
Dia: 72"
Spill: 15"
Projected Area: 27 sq'
Desc Lbs: 23.3
Fps: 16.95
Cd: 2.53 <-- This may be higher due to thermal activity

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At this time we will rate these chutes at a Cd of 2.2 and for now that seems like a safe number.
 
Thanks for the update any estimate when they may be available. I have my pennies saved for some and a cant wait to see how they will improve the look of my beat up rockets.
:D
 
Thanks for the update any estimate when they may be available. I have my pennies saved for some and a cant wait to see how they will improve the look of my beat up rockets.
:D

Hi Jazz, I just worked up the price list and specs. Figure about 40% more efficiency than the ellipsoid, but at about a 30% premium due to the added work.

How heavy is your project and I can quote you...

Ping me at [email protected] for a quote... I'm so close now!
 
Gene,

So you are getting a CD of 2.2 now. Awesome. So can you believe that I was getting a CD of 2.6? It's very possible with the right design.

I just got done testing generation 2 of of my version of the toroidal parachute. I was able to use some math and fit a 96" parachute in the space a 72" used to fit and not lose any performance over my old style 96" toroid. It worked awesome this weekend - dropped my 5.5" 17.5 pound rocket nice and soft.

Does sewing a few shroud lines at the spillhole really constitute a 30% increase in price? All the work is in sewing all those gores together to get that ideal mathematical shape.


Edward
 
Edward
Why would a Toroidal style chutes fold up so much smaller than a normal gored style chute. My feeling is that if the Toroidal is priced at 30% over a gored style chute there will not be many sold. If they were a big seller why did Rocket Rage go out of bussiness. Unless they are being made in China.
Gary
 
I believe Rocket Rage went out of business because the owner no longer had time to support the business. It was always a side thing for him, and it didn't go away due to sales.
 
Hi All, So I'm working now on pricing and specs and the premium will be lower than 30% - we simply have to cover the additional time needed for the additional shroud lines and pull down bridal. Regardless we're making sure it works out in the market's favor based on performance v.s. price. Stand by for more later.

Meanwhile you can get on the waiting list by emailing me at [email protected]. Let me know what your project is and the time frame. We'll see what we can do for the initial product delivery.
 
Edward
Why would a Toroidal style chutes fold up so much smaller than a normal gored style chute. My feeling is that if the Toroidal is priced at 30% over a gored style chute there will not be many sold. If they were a big seller why did Rocket Rage go out of bussiness. Unless they are being made in China.
Gary

Hi Crossfire, The toroidal of the same diameter has only just a bit less packing volume as the same size elliptical (5% less from initial measurements). But due to the much higher efficiency you can use a smaller chute and have the same or better performance. That is how you gain both in terms of packing volume and a lighter weight chute. The 72" toroidal out performs a 84" elliptical.
 
finally!!!
after loong time i could finally test my IRIS ( 84") :D

wonderful parachute, as always :):)

as soon i have more data ( need to read altimeter, me lazy guy :rolleyes:)i will post them

The rocket was my Eggnose, 8 kg liftoff weight with a ATJ570W

small1.jpg

small2.jpg

small0.jpg
 
finally!!!
after loong time i could finally test my IRIS ( 84") :D

wonderful parachute, as always :):)

as soon i have more data ( need to read altimeter, me lazy guy :rolleyes:)i will post them

The rocket was my Eggnose, 8 kg liftoff weight with a ATJ570W

Looks great! Alessio provided me with the key metrics of his flight and I calculated the Cd during main descent:

84" Iris Ultra Chute, Descent Weight 11.37lbs, Descent Speed 9.63fps, Cd 2.77.

I have logged quite a few flights now and average Cd's is 2.45

--

We are shipping these now and contact me at [email protected] if you want a price list.

-G
 
Hi all, Things have slowed down some and I finally have the Iris Ultra chutes up on our website - more convenient to order. Our current backlog is down some now with order to ship being about 3 - 4 weeks ARO. We were backlogged at 6 weeks!

I have also updated the descent speed calculator as well with notes on changing the Cd for various models of chutes. In addition for our EU customers we report descent speed in M/S as well and have calculators to convert units. Here is a link to it - Descent rate calculator.
 
Finally got a chance to put my Fruity Chutes Iris to use, at LDRS. To say it worked beautifully would be an understatement.

Ever seen a high power rocket catch a thermal? I've now seen it twice, and the second time, the recovered weight was over 25 pounds!

-Kevin
 
The toroidal parachutes are very efficient - I've seen friends rockets that were 50+ pounds catch thermals and actually gain altitude in the 100's of feet. That was even with a parachute that was sized for 20 feet/second descent rate also.

Edward
 
I flew my 12 foot Fruity Chute Iris Ultra at LDRS for the first time, and it did its job admirably. After an intentionally rather slow opening (300-400 feet) due to the way I packed it in the deployment bag, the rocket appeared to just about come to a complete halt in the air. It slowed my 66 pound (recovery weight) Kraken to a landing speed of just 10 fps, and it appeared to be catching thermals on the way down. Definitely a great product, and very, very efficient for its size. It actually slowed the rocket so much that the pilot chute was unable to stay inflated, so it collapsed with the deployment bag on top of the main canopy (it's the black thing on the left of the chute in the picture). According to the calculator above, it should have slowed the rocket to 15fps, so it actually was outperforming the expected 2.2 Cd (although there may have been some thermals at the time, so it's hard to be sure).

 
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I flew my 12 foot Fruity Chute Iris Ultra at LDRS for the first time, and it did its job admirably. After an intentionally rather slow opening (300-400 feet) due to the way I packed it in the deployment bag, the rocket appeared to just about come to a complete halt in the air. It slowed my 66 pound (recovery weight) Kraken to a landing speed of just 10 fps, and it appeared to be catching thermals on the way down. Definitely a great product, and very, very efficient for its size. It actually slowed the rocket so much that the pilot chute was unable to stay inflated, so it collapsed with the deployment bag on top of the main canopy (it's the black thing on the left of the chute in the picture). According to the calculator above, it should have slowed the rocket to 15fps, so it actually was outperforming the expected 2.2 Cd (although there may have been some thermals at the time, so it's hard to be sure).


Hi Chris, If I plug in your chute size, 10fps and 66lbs I get a Cd of just over 5! Maybe you can look again at your altimeter data? But otherwise if that is the real descent speed and weight then I think you had to have a thermal going there. But it's safe to say it performed very well.

All, thanks for the great feedback. So far the performance is everything I thought it could be and more. Over quite a few flights the real # (non thermal) that seems to keep coming up is a Cd of around 2.5. If anyone else has accurate descent weight and speed send it over to me and I'll add it to the data I'm collecting - [email protected].

So spread the word!
 
Finally got a chance to put my Fruity Chutes Iris to use, at LDRS. To say it worked beautifully would be an understatement.

Ever seen a high power rocket catch a thermal? I've now seen it twice, and the second time, the recovered weight was over 25 pounds!

-Kevin

Hi Kevin, Do you have the descent weight and speed for your flight? I want to calculate the Cd of your chute...
 
Hi Kevin, Do you have the descent weight and speed for your flight? I want to calculate the Cd of your chute...

I don't have a good descent weight; I can probably get it within 1/2 pound, though.

I'll have to check the file for descent speed.

-Kevin
 
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