From the world of real rockets

[Milo]

Here is something else for you guys to model.

Falcon I

More info here

You might have to add some fins though.

 

[Milo]

After posting this I started contemplating the possiblity of modeling a finless rocket. Is it possible? On a realistic scale that is.

If I wanted to model this rocket in scale how big would it have to be to allow technological components (whatever they might be) to be fitted inside the rocket to keep it flying straight and narrow.

 

[BlueNinja]

I believe there was a finless rocket called the Tao made by estes. Search on emrr for it, i believe it's on there.

 

[hokkyokusei]

You might find this interesting:
https://www.ukrocketman.com/rocketry/gimbal.shtml

 

[Milo]

I also came across this looking into gyroscopes:

Click here: (Note the credit for the article in the "Note" section. I'm not sure that address is still good. It appears this was last touched in January '96.)

So modeling this rocket seems like a possibility after all.

 

[Ryan S.]

wow I love how it is sitting in front of the building on the trailer.

there are ways to stabilize rockets without fins

https://www.jcrocket.com/titan3c.shtml

sometimes they can even fly backwards!!

https://www.cmass.org/member/Peter.Luthi/backward.htm

 

[kenobi65]

Originally posted by Blue_Ninja_150
I believe there was a finless rocket called the Tao made by estes. Search on emrr for it, i believe it's on there.

Had to hunt a bit to find it; it wasn't an Estes kit, but rather, a "Design of the Quarter" from Estes.

It was a two-stage design, in which the booster had angled fins to impart spin to the rocket, so that the finless sustainer would, in theory, be spinning, and therefore stable.

The reviewer had it CATO twice on him -- he had serious doubts about the stability of the design.

 

[eugenefl]

Originally posted by Ryan S.
wow I love how it is sitting in front of the building on the trailer.

there are ways to stabilize rockets without fins

https://www.jcrocket.com/titan3c.shtml

sometimes they can even fly backwards!!

https://www.cmass.org/member/Peter.Luthi/backward.htm

Ryan, I'm surprised you didn't link to John Coker's Athena I. Check it out <a href="https://www.jcrocket.com/athena.shtml">HERE</a>

Wow, that guy has some serious building skills.

 

[wwattles]

I'm actually working on a finless, spin-stabilized rocket similar to this one on EMRR:

No Fins Required

Basically it uses a pair of canted motors to induce a spin with a pair of straight motors for thrust. Significant amounts of weight along the inside of the BT keep the rocket spinning once the small canted motors burn out, so it stays stable.

WW

 

[Bobrogg]

This is what I do for a living! Not only is it a hobby, it's my job!

 

[wwattles]

bobrogg,

In what regard is it your living? Are you a designer, a contractor, or an FC?

I'm personally working on the Plan-Pak from The Launch Pad to build one of those very missiles...

WW

 

[Bobrogg]

I'm a FCC in the USNR; the photo is from a missile test program I worked on in the late 80's. The missile is a SM II ER (extended range) terrier missile. The ship was the USS Leahy CG-16, now it’s rusting away in the mothball fleet.

 

[Bobrogg]

This is what I do today. RF telemetry/high speed photo optics/ internal comms tech with Boeing Sea Launch.

 

[slim_t]

It is very possible and actually quite easy to build a finless rocket.
I have one. All you have to do is put enough weight in the nose to get the CG up. Mine is simply a 34" length of BT20 with a plastic nose cone, so the CP is very close to the midpoint of the rocket. I added weight inside the nose until the CG was 2" above the midpoint and it worked perfect. I launched in no wind to be on the safe side and it flew perfectly straight.

Tim

 

[shrox]

Originally posted by wwattles
I'm actually working on a finless, spin-stabilized rocket similar to this one on EMRR:

No Fins Required

Basically it uses a pair of canted motors to induce a spin with a pair of straight motors for thrust. Significant amounts of weight along the inside of the BT keep the rocket spinning once the small canted motors burn out, so it stays stable.

WW

A nice Polaris paint job would be great for that. Especially with the spin effect.

shrox

 

[graylensman]

On John's page about the Titan III, I didn't see any further data about keeping that bird stable. Can anyone help me out here? (it also seems like he's built a very large model, too.)

 

[slim_t]

On his fleet page, it shows that the Titan is only in the design phase, so he either hasn't gotten that far on the rocket yet, or he hasn't updated his website yet.
Have you tried modeling it in Rocksim? That might at least give you the Cp. If you know what size tubes your going to use, post the dimensions and maybe we can all work it out.

Tim

 

[graylensman]

Oh, heck, I haven't even got past the daydream phase with this rocket! I'd love to model something like the Titan - preferably the Gemini-Titan rocket - but the thought of adding transparent plastic fins just strikes me as clumsy; but I know only the basics when it comes to stability, and those basics includes fins on everything.

As time goes on, when I'm ready... everyone will hear about it....

 

[slim_t]

Oh, so your gonna make me do it, huh.
How about a small 18mm version with Yankee style nose cones?
That oughtta look pretty close. I'll have to see if I have that many NC's.
Or, I could just make one from card stock, hmmmmmm.

Tim

 

[graylensman]

I'm not gonna make you do anything.

... but you can post plans once you get it done....