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Der Red Max

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Just wondering what is the proper etiquette about Avatars?

Let's say you see an Avatar on another forum that was drawn by the user and not just downloaded off of google images.
Is it OK to grab his/her image and use it as your own on another forum?

For example (just for the sake of argument), let's use mine.
I used Illustrator to draw mine from scratch but used the Estes DRM decals as my inspiration.
Would it be OK if someone went to my Avatar at the YORS Forum download it and then used it here on TRF as there own?

Oh, it's definitely the one I use at YORS 'cause it's got a cyan/blue halo around the image that I put on just for that forum -AND- "he" didn't even bother to change the filename, just used it as is.

After all, Der Red Max avatar should belong to Der Red Max user; especially, if I did all the work. No?

This just seems very uncool to me!

Am I just being petty?

drm.gif


the guy.gif
 
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Gillard

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no - you are not being petty.
if it is something that you created, then in my opinion its yours, and should not be used without your permission.
 

AKPilot

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Or, should Der Red Max belong to the manufacturer who came up with the idea in the first place? Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'd simply like to point out that the logo doesn't necessarily belong to one individual.

I do hear what you're saying here though. You spent time and effort to come up with this logo. But I, personally, think you're caught between a rock and a hard place.

Yes, I do think it's uncool if someone were to take your design and use it for themself. But, in their defense it's not copyrighted or trademarked. You're asking for common courtesy or possibly ethical behavior.

Than take a look at it from the point of the manufacturer, is it uncool that you took it from them?


P.S. It's also not too far fetched that the manufacturer may actually come after you, seriously. Take a look at Red River Rocketry and their "Quarc". Estes came to them and asked them to quit using the name, even though there model was the "Quark". John had to clear kits and change the name, because they had the money to fight it.

I do follow with the above comment that the greatest praise is imitation. At the same point though, whose imitating who?
 

Peartree

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Since your name is the name of a well known rocket kit, I suspect that the borrower thought the avatar art was "borrowed" as well. My guess would be that unless you told him/her yourself, they had no idea that it was your original artwork. Perhaps if you just asked nicely they would stop?
 

DexterLB

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My opinion:
If a person hasn't declared that everyone can use HIS avatar, you mustn't use it as your own without his permission.
 

mach7

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Well you don't own your avatar so obviously you have no legal recourse.

I do feel that it is very bad etiquette for someone else to use your custom avatar.

But that is just the way I feel.
 

REAPER

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I too feel it is bad etiquette to use your avatar,you're not being petty. I chose my avatar because I felt no one else would want to use it. It's my L1 cert flight,so its uniquely my own.
 

CharlaineC

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i dont think it is petty but have you asked him or her to change it. explaining that you designed it and would have liked to atleast been asked to have used it? What was said person's responce?
 

delta22

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Copying someone else's avatar is definitely uncool.

Agree with the other comments suggesting direct communication with the other party.
 

n5wd

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Yes, I do think it's uncool if someone were to take your design and use it for themself. But, in their defense it's not copyrighted or trademarked.
Huh? DRM says that he created his avatar himself, inspired by other designs but he asserts that his avatar is an original creation. By American copyright law (as well as in the countries that are signatories to the Berne Convention on Copyright), his avatar is his copyrighted property at the moment it's fixed in a tangible form (i.e. made into a jpeg or gif or put onto paper). He does not have to put the copyright symbol on the avatar nor need he his register the work with the Copyright office in order to be protected by the copyright laws. By putting the symbol on the artwork, and by registering it with the Library of Congress, he gains additional protections under the law, but his still has a copyright on that original artwork, regardless.

DRM -> Yeah, you can ask him to stop using your avatar, but if he ignores you or tells you to take a walk, OR says "Whaddya mean, I came up with this design on my own!", you can claim the moral victory, but that's probably about it. If you were doing this as a business and could prove that he caused you some damages, you might collect a bit in court, but since you haven't registered the copyright, nor put the copyright symbol on the image, that's about it.

Copyright's one of those subjects I teach to the multimedia students... I will be glad to point folks to specific parts of the law if you're interested, but... it's one of those things that gets muddied up pretty quickly on an open forum so PM me if you're interested.

Caveat: I don't play a lawyer on TV, and don't stay at the Holiday Inn, so if you want legal opinions, pay a lawyer! :cool:
 

powderburner

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I can see how you would be miffed at this guy for 'borrowing' your work.

However, it shouldn't be a news flash that this sort of thing happened. Our wonderful society has de-generated to the point that many people (most?) are not only not worried that stealing intellectual property might be wrong, but they are usually not even aware that this is wrong at all. So what are you gonna do?

Next time, imbed your name somewhere in the logo, save the whole thing as one item, and that's about the best you can do to sidestep these jerks.
 
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Der Red Max

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General replies to questions:

• I didn't design it, I used Illustrator to draw it out based on the DRM decals.
• I never claimed it was my "intellectual property".
• My question is not "isn't this my trademark"? Of course not. It's just that I've been using this avatar and this guy just lifted it from my profile for him to use. That's all.
• I didn't contact him because I wanted to find out what the sentiment was here. If everyone thought I was being petty than I would bite my tongue.
• Do you really have to tell people not to "lift" someone's avatar?
• What if someone decided to lift the "Pilot" Lic.Plate image (as an example) because they liked it as well and wanted to use it as their avatar. I know it's not your copyrighted image but, in forums, user are recognized by their avatars which are usually synonymous with their handles.
What if I wanted to use "AKPilot-2" (just as an example) for my handle? - Totally Un-cool and B.S., right? That's all I'm saying

DRM
 

AKPilot

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LOL, I hear you DRM.

Actually, I'll let you in on a secret - my license plate is commercially available up in Alaska. ;) My point is, I always run the risk of someone using it on another site, and it wasn't mine to begin with. :eek:
 

SwingWing

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The pilot license plate is in every gift shop in Alaska, from Ketchikan to Fairbanks. Alaska is the land of gift shops!!!
 

AKPilot

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That's why we don't have sales or state tax, for locals. It's like Florida, with ice.
 

FatBoy

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Interesting thread on an interesting problem. I agree that it is un-cool for someone else to use your avatar. You are not being petty at all.

Hmmmm.... I wonder if I could fit FATBOYPILOT on a Minnesota license plate....
 

AKPilot

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Interesting thread on an interesting problem. I agree that it is un-cool for someone else to use your avatar. You are not being petty at all.

Hmmmm.... I wonder if I could fit FATBOYPILOT on a Minnesota license plate....

That'd be: FtByPlt



Actually, if you want to have some fun go here:

Alaska DMV Personalized Plates

Alaska is actually pretty forward thinking. Down here in Missouri for personalized plates you have to fill in a form and put down eight choices and hope for one. Compared to Alaska, Missouri is backwoods. It took me two tries to get on I liked: Aviatn (people couldn't figure out AKPilt; they kept thinking "Pilt" was Anheiser-Bush's (Budweiser) newest brew).
 

MarkII

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What I find interesting in the whole business of avatars (I'm an avid avatar aficionado, BTW :D ) is that when you decide to change your avatar, the change doesn't just affect all of your posts from that point onward, it goes back and changes the avatar in every message you ever posted. It's like jumping into your DeLorean and going back in time and changing history! ;) Imagine the implications!! If this were the old TRF, and you had, say, posts that went all the way back to 2001, you could decide today to change your avatar to one that said "US Economy Craters in 2008, Triggering Great Depression II." Later on, someone doing a search might come across one of your old posts from a few years ago, and think, "Wow, he foresaw that happening THAT long ago?" :rolleyes:

Mark \\.
 
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MarkII

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Or one that said, "TRF Gets Blue Screened in 2008, but AKPilot Saves The Day!"... :D

Mark \\.
 

MarkII

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LOL, I hear you DRM.

Actually, I'll let you in on a secret - my license plate is commercially available up in Alaska. ;) My point is, I always run the risk of someone using it on another site, and it wasn't mine to begin with. :eek:
Actually Troy, you might have to change your avatar to one that looks like this:



:D

Mark \\.
 

AKPilot

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Thank you for the thoughts. But I honestly and sincerely don't deserve that, I just a bug up my rear to get it back on line.
 

Mikus

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Actually Troy, you might have to change your avatar to one that looks like this:



:D

Mark \\.
Nope. Mine! Mine! MINE!!!!

J/K ;)

It's lame to steal someone's Avatar, copyrights or not. And impersonating another user is against most forum's policies. But I'd ban him just on the lameness factor alone. EVERYONE knows DRM was here 1st, he shouldn't be penalized because the site crashed and the data got dumped.

But DRM, I think I like your new Avatar better. :D
 

Der Red Max

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DRM, I think I like your new Avatar better.
Thank you, but it's not new, I made different versions for different forums.
I've been using the circular one on this forum for over a year now.
Now I'll be using both here.
 
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RocketflierVB

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Ok, before I get ran out of town I changed the avatar. I don't recall when or where I came across his image but it's gone. He had PM'd me and I believe we are square.
 

Der Red Max

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Ok, before I get ran out of town I changed the avatar. I don't recall when or where I came across his image but it's gone. He had PM'd me and I believe we are square.
Ok, so he turned out to be classy guy after all.
Thank you sir!
 

Peartree

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Dang, I was looking forward to a good old-fashioned tar-and-feathering. ;)

Anyway, glad that everything worked out okay.
Monkeys with feathers? Sounds like like one of Dorothy's nightmares on Oz...:D
 
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