For those who think that the US (and possibly others) are overreacting to Coronavirus:

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dr wogz

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I would also add:

"My car has AWD, therefore I should be able to drive as fast as I can / want, wherever & whenever.. regardless of the road conditions. they tell me it's safer with AWD than just 2-wheel drive..."

Same kinda argument
 

Old School Doug

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328.2 million people in USA
32.744 million confirmed cases. Of those, 1.8% death rate (582,000 according to John's Hopkins)

That means of the 328.2 million people in the USA, there is a 0.177% chance of death, or 99.823% chance of survival
No thanks, I'll skip the "experimental" vaccine.

In other words, more people are killed by heart attacks and cancer in the USA, but smoking isn't banned, and neither is bacon.
1) By focusing almost exclusively on the number of deaths, the more important aspect of this pandemic is being ignored either willfully or by a lack of awareness. The healthcare system in this country was on the verge of being broken by admissions of patients suffering from the infection during various waves. The videos and 1st hand accounts by healthcare workers of overwhelmed emergency rooms was widely reported. Without getting a handle on this virus through RESPONSIBLE behavior including mask wearing, distancing, and vaccination we could easily be in a situation where the ability to provide adequate care for those heart attack and cancer victims could be greatly diminished.

2) Heart attacks, cancer, smoking and the eating of bacon are not contagions that can infect and potentially kill those very healthcare workers that have dedicated their lives to providing care for others.
 

dr wogz

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and I think the other thing that is missed with this, is that it was sound advice at the time, but later on (science, more studies, tends, etc..) they soon changed their tunes. We noted a few of teh 'anti' crowd tend to jump at the "they're changing their minds" rant as proof "they don't know".

Science changes, trends change, thing get modified to suit the greater data set..



heroin = morphine = opiates.. great as a pain killer, and at making you quite relaxed.. But yeah.. they seem to be flying off the shelf for some reason.. maybe we should look into this..

And with this, we might as well toss in leaded gasoline, seat belts, drinking & driving, sun bathing, original Coke (from the 1900's, not 1985), thalidomide...
 

kuririn

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And with this, we might as well toss in leaded gasoline, seat belts, drinking & driving, sun bathing, original Coke (from the 1900's, not 1985), thalidomide...
PCBs in electrical transformers, the "safe" level of radiation exposure (1950s level was a couple of orders of magnitude higher than current), herbicides like Agent Orange and RoundUp, widely prescribed drugs like Famotidine and Celebrex, etc. etc.
 

Marc_G

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I forgot.....Mercurochrome.
Used to use it all the time for cuts and scrapes in my household.
I had a bottle of this occasionally used for many years. Went to drug store to replace it. None on the shelf. Pharmacist said something like "We haven't sold that in a decade. It turns out it is highly toxic..."
 

kuririn

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I had a bottle of this occasionally used for many years. Went to drug store to replace it. None on the shelf. Pharmacist said something like "We haven't sold that in a decade. It turns out it is highly toxic..."
It's OK for topical use.
As long as you don't ingest it.
I remember the bottle in our family's medicine cabinet had a skull warning on it.
 

NateB

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I forgot.....Mercurochrome.
Used to use it all the time for cuts and scrapes in my household.
The school nurse used that to punish us for scraped knees with that stuff in elementary school. I can feel the sting just reading about it.
 
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kuririn

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The school nurse used that to punish us for scraped knees with that stuff in elementary school. I can feel the sting just reading about it.
Our elementary school nurse used something called green soap.
I have no idea what that is.
 

DEmery

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thalidomide...

Thalidomide was never sold in the US for morning sickness, but was in Europe. It is used in the US now as an anticancer drug, used in multiple myeloma
 

dr wogz

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thalidomide...

Thalidomide was never sold in the US for morning sickness, but was in Europe. It is used in the US now as an anticancer drug, used in multiple myeloma
was widely used in Canada. And, if I recall, Canada was one of the last to ditch it..
 

Reinhard

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Initially. 15 days to flatten the curve. You can only flatten it for awhile, then you get another wave. If lockdowns made a big difference in deaths, then South Dakota and Florida would be at the top of the list.
Keep in mind that most lockdowns happened reactively, not proactively. If most folks can only be bothered to close the barn door after the horses start bolting, than yes, closed barn doors will correlate with missing horses.

There are only few places that used lockdowns to basically preventativly root out the epidemic. Think Australia, New Zealand or Vietnam. The other lockdowns happened either after places got more or less hit by surprise during the first wave (e.g. Italy or NY) or later during the pandemic when infection numbers reached or threatened to reach unmanagable levels.

Those late lockdowns are a pet peeve of mine. Putting some seasonal businesses aside, a lockdown in month X will cost as much as a lockdown in month Y, but waiting until the last moment will cause unnecessary deaths and suffering. It's like paying back debt. It gets harder to manage the longer one waits and interest accrues.

Reinhard
 

DEmery

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“A new study from Chicago University economist Casey Mulligan validates what the anti-lockdowners knew all along: Lockdowns are a bad idea. After workplaces implemented mitigation measures, they became far safer environments than people’s homes.”

I haven’t read it all, but helps explain why lockdowns aren’t so great. Lockdowns are different than border closures.
 

Marc_G

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“A new study from Chicago University economist Casey Mulligan validates what the anti-lockdowners knew all along: Lockdowns are a bad idea. After workplaces implemented mitigation measures, they became far safer environments than people’s homes.”

I haven’t read it all, but helps explain why lockdowns aren’t so great. Lockdowns are different than border closures.
I will have to read the actual study, but a similar one (title wise) that was bogus went around a few months ago.

Premise was that since the population studied showed most infections occurred in the home, it was safe to go out and mix. Review of the data showed that it was taken during a time when a reasonable reduction in ex-home infections had occurred DUE TO LOCKDOWNS and so at the time most of the infections were between housemates (the patient zero in each home had contracted it outside the home of course).
 

dr wogz

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the idea behind a lock-down is to stop people mingling..

Yes, a certain percentage need to go out & "mingle": doctors, cops, etc. Yu are not expected to be out in a restaurant with your friends, going to & from teh cottage (and meeting friends there) and ...

Schools should be closed as there is very close contact with many 'mingling'. But schools were left open to allow parents to go to work.


But everyone seems to think they are special, won't catch it, and should not have to abide by the simper rules..



(Quebec has been under 'curfew' since new year's. I've bene working form home for 14 months now..)
 

DEmery

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The study showed workplace changes made a big drop in getting COVID at work, such that getting COVID at home was more likely. One place studied was Duke medical, where initially employees were much more likely get infected at work, then after workplace changes, were 3 times more likely to get infected at home. So some changes can be made to greatly reduce the risk of spread short of closing everything down.

And grade schools should have never been closed as transmission there has been negligible. Our schools have been in person for months with no associated outbreaks (there was one at a swim meet, but not classroom related).
 

Funkworks

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..."My car has AWD, therefore I should be able to drive as fast as I can / want, wherever & whenever.. regardless of the road conditions. they tell me it's safer with AWD than just 2-wheel drive..."
Do these people wear a helmet when they play hockey?
 

modeltrains

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Re: “ In the early stages of the pandemic, many Americans endured long lines and stocked up on groceries to avoid repeat trips to the stores. But these inconveniences – as well as going from store to store in search of scarce goods – can be physically and emotionally grueling for people with limited mobility or stability, or who are easily exhausted. And although many supermarkets created special shopping hours for elderly and disabled customers, getting there at specific times required people to either be able to drive or navigate the scheduling uncertainties of public transportation. “

--> and/or those shopping hours were something like 6am to 7am which could mean getting up at 3 or 4am in order to have enough time to get ready to go out. ASSUMING you had a way to get there at that time.


(yes, I said that in bold based on personal experience)

EDIT: a reply to where I shared this on Tumblr,

"And during times of product “shortages”, Kroger/Fred Meyers limited a lot of items to “in store shoppers only”. This meant that I couldn’t get items that were available, because I was using their app and having groceries delivered. Even though my “shopper” from Instacart was in the store, they were not allowed to buy certain items for me, including foods, toilet paper, and hand sanitizer. Even though they had it. How is this not discrimination against people who can’t leave their houses? Or immunocompromised people? Or disabled people who were quarantining because of conditions that made them more vulnerable?"
 
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Marc_G

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Rory Gin

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was widely used in Canada. And, if I recall, Canada was one of the last to ditch it..
My mother used it (thalidomide) for a couple of weeks when I was in the womb. Lucky for me as I was born with all my limbs and everything intact. Not so lucky for guys like Alvin Law. But she suspected it led to the other health issues I had when I was a kid - I chaulked that up to a Mother's worries and guilt.
 
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