Fliskits Fireside Chat Transcript


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May 2, 2009
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[11:03] >jflis> Basically... :)
[11:04] >jflis> Quest Aerospace had plans in place to replace their current MMX line with a line of builders kits, as was descirbed by Bill Stine many times
[11:04] >jflis> at the same time, FlisKits had been contemplating entering the MMX arena with a couple of kits to test the waters
[11:05] >jflis> As Quest was met with several delay's, they had internally had considered discontinuing this line
[11:05] >jflis> but they also had the concern of their customer base and a warehouse full of motors
[11:06] >jflis> At one point they asked FlisKits how serious we were about announcing a micromaxx line and I decided to ask "how serious do you need us to be", basically
[11:06] >jflis> that led to a series of discussions where Quest was going to announced that they are discontinuing their MMX line of kits (which they have done) and that FlisKits will be taking that market over (which we have announced and are preparing to do)
[11:07] >jflis> and that is where it stands at this time. Most of you have seen the initial line of kits that we plan to announce, they are:
[11:07] >jflis> Teeny Triskelion, Petite Praetor, Diminutive Deuce, Ulysses and the Intergalactic Man of Space
[11:07] * Elapid giggles
[11:08] >Elapid> awesome
[11:08] >jflis> Along with this we will have a large (and growing) collection of parts including cones, adapters, nose blocks, tubes, engine mount kits, launch lugs, etc
[11:08] >jflis> so, with that... :) Andysrockets, you're first. do you have any quesitons?
[11:09] >jflis> without any feedback, i will assume that the person has left the room for a moment and move on... :)
[11:09] >andysrockets> pass
[11:09] >jflis> k
[11:09] >jflis> Cydermaster, you're up!
[11:09] >Cydermaster> pass - i'm packing for irw ;)
[11:09] >jflis> k, elapid? you're up
[11:09] >Cydermaster> i'll probably think of on later tho
[11:10] >Elapid> i like the names you've chosen for the new fleet... i have tried one clustered MMX so far and have had mixed success...
[11:10] >jflis> we'll keep cycling through the list till we run out of questions :)
[11:10] >Elapid> is there a plan for an altternative ignition system
[11:10] >Elapid> for the diminutive deuce
[11:10] >jflis> Not so much an "alternative" ignition system as better methods of installing ignitors
[11:10] >jflis> let me explain...
[11:11] >jflis> The current quest mmx ignitor is good in limited use. The design is such that you have to prop the ignitor up and set the model/motor on top of it
[11:11] >jflis> this does not work well for clusters.
[11:11] >jflis> There are two solutions that I have tried with great success:
[11:12] >jflis> 1) Use their new ignitors (I can't recall the name of them - the thinner wire wit hthe glass bead) and install them as you would an estes igniter in a standard motor
[11:12] >jflis> 2) Disassemble the MMX ignitor and hold it in the MMX-2 motor with a toothpick.
[11:12] >jflis> WIth both methods I am 100% to date (about 50 motors) in clusters.
[11:13] >jflis> NOTE: Neither of these methods work with the MMX-1 motors and may cause a CATO. Only use with the MMX-2 motors!
[11:13] >jflis> jflis, you're up... ...wait, that don't make sense... :D
[11:13] >jflis> Mike, questions?
[11:14] >jflis> Oh, and as an addon to that last question/answer, we will provide instructions for installing ignitors with our kit instructions :)
[11:14] >jflis> k, sandman? do you have a question? (we'll come back to mike in a bit
[11:15] >sandman> Well, yea...did you get the stuff I sent you?
[11:15] >jflis> Um, nope, not yet... send me a PM about the content and when you sent it (odd... )
[11:16] >sandman> I emailed it with a bunch of attachments
[11:16] >jflis> never got it..... I will check later to see if my spam blocker nailed it....
[11:16] >sandman> you know for the....
[11:16] >jflis> ??
[11:17] >sandman> I sent some DXF and DWG file for micro maxx stuff
[11:17] * brianc_no_questions_at_this_ti is now known as brianc
[11:17] >jflis> yep, haven't received it though.
[11:17] >jflis> let's go on to andysrockets. You're up guy!
[11:17] >sandman> k...I'll resend it
[11:17] >andysrockets> what guarantees are there that MMX motors will continue to be made, if quest are stopping the kits (and presumably the starter packs) ?
[11:18] >andysrockets> or did i miss something?
[11:18] >jflis> All I can say to that question is that Quest stated in their QBLOG that they currently have a 5 year supply and that they will continue to manufacture MMX motors.
[11:18] >jflis> In addition...
[11:19] >jflis> If, as we approach that 5 year mark, *and* the micromaxx line is successful, *and* Quest makes the decision that they do not wish to continue making the motors then FlisKits will investigate taking that over as well
[11:20] >jflis> This has been an ongoing concern and many people missed that statement in the QBLOG.
[11:20] >jflis> Brianc, you're up!
[11:20] >brianc> Will you be offering a MMX music wire launch rod in your 'parts & components' product line? I have several plastic Quest MMX (from NARAM-46) that haven't launched yet, due a lack of the rod...
[11:20] * EchoVictor ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[11:21] * EchoVictor enters
[11:21] >jflis> Yes, we will be offering the launch rod as well as several very easy to make home-made launch pads that can attach to a standard launch pad. What I currently use is a MMX rod glued in the nozzle of a spent motor casing with a standard 1/8" launch lug glued to the casing :)
[11:21] >jflis> Cydermaster? You're up!
[11:21] >Cydermaster> will you be doing mmx only designs?
[11:22] >jflis> I am afraid that I am not sure i understand the question. Are we going to be a MMX only company? Not a chance. MMX will be one of our markets, is all
[11:22] >jflis> Is that what you meant?
[11:23] >Cydermaster> nope - will there be some designs only released as mmx size
[11:24] >jflis> OH! LOL, it's possible. We are MMXing several of our popular kits per customer request. There is no doubt that if we do a unique MMX design that folks want in 18mm or 24mm that we would certainly consider doing an upscale. Frankly, time and money permitting, we will do whatever *you* (the customer) want us to do :_)
[11:24] >jflis> EchoVictor, you're up!
[11:24] >Cydermaster> cool
[11:24] >jflis> :)
[11:25] >jflis> EchoVictor?
[11:25] >jflis> Elapid, you're up again! :)
[11:25] * hokky ([email protected]) has joined #therocketryforum
[11:25] >Elapid> pass
[11:25] >jflis> k
[11:25] >EchoVictor> Thanks, for hosting this chat, Jim. Are the nose cones in your parts picture solid with screw eyes, or hollow to add clay?
[11:25] >jflis> Hokky, just in time! You're up! (we're having a FlisKits fireside chat about Micromaxx
[11:25] >jflis> oh, hang on :)
[11:25] >hokky> I'll pass, thanks
[11:26] >jflis> Echo: They are solid balsa cones. Now about screw eyes... :)
[11:26] >EchoVictor> sorry for the slow response
[11:26] >jflis> We've looked at several and don't like what we see for size (some of our cones are BT-2 size). What we *are* looking at are what we call "cord anchors" would would be dense metal nails that you would use to secure your shock cord
[11:27] >jflis> No problem on the delay.. just wasn't sure you were there or not :) Now, how to use these nails:
[11:27] >jflis> You would insert the nail in the base of the cone, remove, put your knoted cord in the hole with a drop of glue then reseat the nail. This will add a bit of nose weight as well as seat your cord firmly
[11:28] >jflis> we would hope to have nose weights avail too that can be held in place by this nail
[11:28] >jflis> Mike, you're up!
[11:28] >jflis> k, sandman, you're up!
[11:29] >sandman> any =Scale+ MMX kits?
[11:29] * OKTurbo ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[11:29] * OKTurbo enters
[11:29] >jflis> If I scoot past you as yo uare typing your question, just finish an dhit the enter key, we'll get right to it :)
[11:30] >jflis> Sand: YES! :) I don't want to spill TOO many beans, but we're looking at : Mercury redstone, Little Joe II, Saturn 1B, V (apollo) V (skylab), Honest John, V2 and a host of sounding rockets....
[11:30] >Cydermaster> nice :D
[11:30] >EchoVictor> wow!
[11:30] >sandman> cool!
[11:30] >jflis> Bottom line is, the more successful our customers make this new line of ours, the more it will grow. It ain't up to us (fliskits), it's up to *you* :)
[11:30] >Elapid> !
[11:31] >jflis> oh, give me a multi-million dollar lotto win and a crew to work with an dyou would not BELEIVE what we could come up with up here LOL
[11:31] >Cydermaster> lol
[11:31] >jflis> Andysrockets, you're up!
[11:31] >andysrockets> pass
[11:31] >jflis> k
[11:31] >jflis> brianc, you're up!
[11:31] >brianc> OK, I'll ask the question that everyone REALLY wants to know- When are you going to pull the trigger on this? How soon can we expect to see the parts and kits available for purchase?
[11:32] >jflis> well *some* of the triggers have already been pulled. Let me explain... :)
[11:32] >jflis> We have secured quotes and samples on many parts. We are still waiting for quotes on body tubes and misc accessories.
[11:33] >jflis> Once we have all the quotes in, we can begin to order material. Company finances will determine how big a start we begin with. It is my hope that we begin with the 5 kits discussed and about 1/2 to 2/3 of the parts shown in various places
[11:33] >jflis> As for timining...
[11:33] >jflis> October is the earliest, though it could slip till November. It is very imporant to us that we have this at least *begun* before the holiday buying season in late october
[11:34] >jflis> I hope to have additional information posted on the web site as we get things finalized...
[11:34] >jflis> Hope that helps. I don't have a firm date, but we are still on target (pretty much) with our fall release schedule
[11:34] >jflis> Also understand:
[11:35] >jflis> This is being balanced along side our desire to release our launch pad, launch controller, Starter Kits and Beginner Kits, so... :) (it's goiong to be a busy fall for us)
[11:35] >jflis> k, cytermaster, you're up!
[11:35] >Cydermaster> is there a mmx monocoptor on the horizon?
[11:35] * rocketkyle ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[11:35] * rocketkyle enters
[11:35] >rocketkyle> hello
[11:35] >sandman> Sorry to go "out of turn" but I have a "family" thing to go to...Jim Email me later
[11:36] >jflis> Not at this time. If we get requests (such as yours), we would certainly consider it :)
[11:36] >jflis> later sand!
[11:36] * sandman ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:36] >jflis> Hope that helps....
[11:36] >Cydermaster> ta
[11:36] >Cydermaster> :D
[11:36] >jflis> Heck, if I really had to look, i have over 50 very cool MMX designs I could consider... LOL
[11:36] >jflis> EchoVictor, you're up!
[11:36] >EchoVictor> In your announcement thread, we discussed a "Designer's Special". Any more details (# of parts, price estimate, etc.)?
[11:37] >jflis> OH! good point!
[11:37] >jflis> No price yet, but in working them out I discovered a few things, so allow me to ellaborate...
[11:38] >jflis> balsa cones aren't cheep, we all know that. When I worked out a price for a designer special it came out VERY expensive, even with added discounts (well over $40) , so...
[11:38] * Mike267 ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[11:38] * Mike267 enters
[11:38] >jflis> I pared it down a bit and hope to come out with several designer specials, that would look like this (basically)
[11:39] * Mike295 ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[11:39] * Mike295 enters
[11:39] >jflis> They would be small(ish) with maybe 3-4 cones *or* 2-3 cones and 1-2 adapters. After that, adding tubes, patterns, lugs, fin stock, etc is easy. I am hoping to keep the cost below $20 but it may go as high as the mid-$20's....
[11:40] >jflis> AT some point I will be asking fo rinput from our customers about what you would like to see and what price you think is reasonable...
[11:40] >jflis> So, for those of you interested, please send me an email or even start a thread in the scratchbuilding forum
[11:40] >EchoVictor> As the designer's special is the MMX release I'm most looking forward to, I'll take the biggest one you've got!
[11:40] >jflis> Elapid, you're up!
[11:40] >Elapid> will you be taking over production of the plastic RTF kits, or are they done with completely?
[11:41] >jflis> EchoVictor, now THAT'S what I like to hear! :)
[11:41] >Mike> (there appears to be a few of me)
[11:41] >rocketkyle> whoa, i see that...
[11:41] * Mike295 ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:41] * Mike267 ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:41] >Mike> (stupid firefox)
[11:42] >jflis> Elapid, "NO". :) I made it clear to Quest Aerospace that FlisKits had no interest in the current inventory they held. They are free to do what they wish with them. FlisKits will continue their tradition of "builders kits" with balsa components, as that is what we beleive our customers want, plus...
[11:42] >jflis> you gotta SEE our kits SCOOT on an MMX motor. Flights over 100 feet and nearly out of sight. they are great :)
[11:42] >rocketkyle> amen...
[11:42] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[11:43] >hokky> I'll pass again, thanks
[11:43] >jflis> k
[11:43] >jflis> Mike, you're up!
[11:43] >EchoVictor> ...or at least one of him is....
[11:44] >jflis> Are any of you still here, Mike?? :)
[11:44] * andysrockets is now known as andy_passes
[11:44] * andy_passes is away: Getting Food
[11:44] >jflis> k, OKTurbo, you're up!
[11:44] >OKTurbo> (sorry if this has been answered already...I came in late) MicroMaxx launch pad or adapter? The biggest pain for me with MMX is the silly ignitors.
[11:44] >jflis> this has been covered to an extent, but bears repeating (so bear with me :) )
[11:45] >jflis> We will have available a MMX launch rod. We will also provide instructions for building a very simple launch pad that fits onto any standard 1/8" style mod roc pad.
[11:46] >jflis> In additon to this, we will be providing instructions for how to disassbemble the MMX ignitors and install them with a toothpick, providing GREAT reliability and ease of use
[11:46] >jflis> Lastly, we will also be showing instructions on how to use the new (glass bead) Quest ignitors with MMX motors
[11:47] >jflis> Truely, lastly :), if there is enough interest/desire, we would look into designing a MMX specific launch pad, but at this time we don't feel that it is necessary...
[11:47] >jflis> Rocketkyle, you're up!
[11:47] >rocketkyle> I would like to see a MMX boost glider--a kit of something like this. www.artapplewhite.com/glider.gif
[11:48] >jflis> FlisKits would also like to do a good boost glider and rocket glider (not to mention helicopter, streamer and paracute duration, etc). We would like to see growth in this field and beleive that competition is a good way to do this. Any models we come up with for compeition would include simplified instruction for use as a sport model, so they would be suitable for all
[11:48] * Mike is now known as aMike
[11:49] >rocketkyle> ok cool, sounds like a plan...
[11:49] >jflis> It should also be pointed out that FlisKits is working with the NAR to help define a new set of rules that would allow for "indoor flying"
[11:49] >Cydermaster> :D
[11:49] >EchoVictor> :confused:
[11:49] >Cydermaster> rocketry in your bathroom? ;)
[11:49] >jflis> This has been attempted and failed in the past and we beleive we know where the problems were and the NAR has acknowleged that they are willing to discuss this with us.
[11:50] >Elapid> nice!
[11:50] >jflis> We hope to be on the NAR agenda at NARAM 48 with a rules proposal.
[11:50] >jflis> this would allow (under very restrictive setup) performing launches in suitable buildings/autotoriums that we feel would provide a whole new line of competition events never before possible.
[11:51] >jflis> As we have information (early/mid-2006) we will be posting informaiton on our web site.
[11:51] >jflis> aMike, are you back? you're up!
[11:51] >aMike> sorry was in a rush (was this allowed?) - in you component line, will we be seeing MMX cluster centering rings?
[11:52] * OKTurbo ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:52] >jflis> No clustering centering rings, but cluster engine mount kits. The only purpose of a cluster centering ring is to make a cluster engine mount, and (quite frankly), if you're going to build a cluster engine mount, we want you to build *ours*... :) (my bad)
[11:52] >jflis> Or, is there some compelling other reason customers would want just the rings? (help me out here folks :) )
[11:53] >jflis> k
[11:53] >aMike> no - except for maybe cost if i had my own tubes
[11:53] >EchoVictor> open tube center sections?
[11:53] >jflis> it's a thought. We'll put that on the list to consider.
[11:53] >jflis> What is an "open tube center section"?
[11:54] >EchoVictor> ...kinda like a Saturn 1B or a X-prize Rubicon end, but in the middle of the rocket body.
[11:54] >jflis> Send me a sketch. It's certailny do-able :)
[11:54] >jflis> brianc, you're up!
[11:54] >brianc> With a lot of your efforts concentrated on the MMX launch (heh- a pun), do you see any impact (schedule slipage or new design decline, etc) in your regular product line enhancements? You are afterall, still a small company! :) Any Shrox inspired MMX planned?
[11:55] >aMike> cool - i gotta go (sorry for jumping the queue a bit!)
[11:55] >aMike> thanks jim
[11:55] >jflis> Big question. Let me flex my fingers a bit :)
[11:55] * aMike ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:55] >jflis> later, mike
[11:55] >EchoVictor> Oooh, yeah, more Shrox!
[11:55] >jflis> The initial MMX launch will certianly (currently is) having an impact on other releases, however...
[11:56] >jflis> Our goal for 2005 was to release the launch pad, launch controller, one scale kit and the D-Nelson Tomahawk (seen on the back of our catalog).
[11:57] >jflis> the only thing slipped out to 06 is the D-Nelson at this time. So while it has had an impact, it isn't that great. If our scale model slips out it is because of part fabrication and not the mMX release.
[11:58] >jflis> After the line (*mmx) is firmly established, additional releases will not have that strong an impact on other product releases. to help prevent that from happening, I am developing a separate line within the company with its own finances and its own timeline. My hope is that one will not impact the other to any great degree
[11:58] >jflis> hope that helps!
[11:58] >jflis> oh, SHROX... :)
[11:59] >jflis> At this time we have another Shrox kit slated for release in 06 (no hints :) ), but have not considered them for MMX. We certainly can as we (FlisKits) will own the license for any Shrox designed kit we produce (like the Alien8)
[11:59] >jflis> Cydermaster, you're up!
[11:59] >Cydermaster> pass
[11:59] >jflis> k
[11:59] >Cydermaster> (i'm eating)
[11:59] >jflis> echovictor, you're up!
[11:59] >jflis> ")
[11:59] >jflis> :)
[11:59] * brianc is now known as brianc_passes
[11:59] >EchoVictor> :D
[11:59] >EchoVictor> :D
[11:59] >EchoVictor> The only problem with a MMX Shrox is finding tiny ping-pong balls!
[12:00] >jflis> LOL that's what the bead shops are for... LOL
[12:00] >jflis> Echo, did you have a question?
[12:00] >EchoVictor> Jim, FYI, my first goal with a Designer's Special would be to create a MMX FarScape.
[12:00] >jflis> oh, VERY kewl :)
[12:00] >EchoVictor> Any more info on the "MMX Flis Fleet" package deal?
[12:01] >jflis> I have discussed this with Brian (partner) and my wife. We will have an MMX FlisFleet that will be separate and distinct from the standard FlisFleet products, so keep watch :) They will work the same way.
[12:01] >jflis> oh, you bring up an interesting point that I want to mention...
[12:01] * ben328 ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[12:01] * ben328 enters
[12:01] >ben328> lo guys
[12:02] >jflis> I am working to increase the number of FlisKits kits that come with decals and we hope to begin this tradition with the MMX kits. (more later when i get info from my decal maker...)
[12:02] >jflis> k, elapid, you're up!
[12:02] >Elapid> you've mentioned in the past that you dont' mind seeing your designs upscaled...is there any particular design you would *like* to see in massive form that hasn't been tackled yet?
[12:02] >jflis> lo ben! :)
[12:02] >Elapid> :D
[12:03] * Elapid is looking for a new project
[12:03] >Elapid> :D
[12:03] >jflis> U.S.S. Grissom, Night Whisper, for starters :D :D
[12:03] >jflis> I've already done a 6 foot 24mm Grissom and I love it :)
[12:03] * ben328 has to many "new" projects
[12:03] >ben328> :D
[12:03] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[12:03] >andy_passes> :) @ Grissom Upscale
[12:03] >jflis> oh yea :)
[12:03] >hokky> this may have been tackled earlier, but what's the motor situation? Will quest continue production, or will you take over?
[12:04] * ben328 is trying to get the little screw that fastens this gears to a motor shaft and its being a dumb @##
[12:05] >jflis> Per the QBLOG, Quest has a 5 year supply and states that they will continue manufacture when these are depleted. Should that decision on Quest's part change before the 5 year supply is exhausted, FlisKits will look into taking over the license to produce or produce our own. That is 5 years out so we have plenty of time :)
[12:05] >jflis> Rocketkyle, you're up!
[12:05] >rocketkyle> not really...just make sure that you have a sleek (30-60-90 fin design) MMX rocket for high altitudes
[12:05] >ben328> :p
[12:05] >rocketkyle> i would love to see you producing motors
[12:05] >rocketkyle> for MMX
[12:06] >jflis> Let me say this about motors in general:
[12:06] >jflis> For FlisKits to become the model rocket company that we are capable of becoming, motors are inevitable.
[12:06] >jflis> Motors are also a LARGE financial burden so it will be a while. But we have been thinking about it since more than a year before we even opened.
[12:07] >jflis> The MMX situation is a bit different. It is our hope that, should it come to it, we could just take over the existing production should Quest decide to stop their efforts.
[12:07] >jflis> Something else that I would be interested in looking into is a MMX booster.... :D
[12:07] >Cydermaster> cool
[12:07] >rocketkyle> yes
[12:07] >rocketkyle> im in for that
[12:07] >ben328> nice
[12:07] >Elapid> yes
[12:08] >jflis> Ben328, you up! (just in case... :) we're having a FlisKits fireside chat about MMX kits. If you have a question, post away. If not just pass and we'll move on :) )
[12:08] >jflis> 5
[12:08] >ben328> i'll pass on MMx for a while
[12:08] >jflis> 4
[12:08] >jflis> k
[12:08] >jflis> :)
[12:08] >jflis> cydermaster, you're up!
[12:08] >Cydermaster> pass
[12:09] >jflis> k
[12:09] >jflis> echovictor, you're up!
[12:09] >EchoVictor> Any thoughts on attmepting to cast odd-shaped plastic nose cones (MMX or otherwise)?
[12:10] >jflis> This has come up a few times... I have several designs that require asymetrical nose cones that would have to be done in plastic, so...
[12:10] * brianc_passes is now known as brianc
[12:10] >jflis> when we decide it is important enough to release one of those kits *and* we have the money to afford the molds, we would do specific plastic cones
[12:11] >jflis> Any cone that is symetrical (eg: can be turned on a lathe) would be. I don't really see us changing that any time soon, if ever... :)
[12:11] >jflis> elapid, you're up!
[12:11] >EchoVictor> Please, please, please! The asymmetrical, "cockpit"-style cones are some of my favroties!
[12:11] >Elapid> k
[12:11] >jflis> :)
[12:11] >Elapid> is there a possibility of release of even *smaller* motors if you go into production?
[12:11] >Elapid> :p
[12:12] >Elapid> i'm thinking specifically of indoor rocketry youmentioned earlier
[12:12] >rocketkyle> :D
[12:12] >jflis> hhmmm, a little history here...:)
[12:12] >Elapid> little MMX rocket cars for the home..
[12:12] >Elapid> :p
[12:12] >Cydermaster> anything smaller would be an ignitor, surely ;)
[12:12] >Elapid> just shorter fuel grain
[12:13] >jflis> the Micromaxx line was developed (as i understand it) in an effort to reproduce the Czech motors that were brought back by Art Rose in the mid-80's (i have many of these motors)
[12:13] >jflis> These puppies are so small that you could use a MMX motor casing as a motor tube...
[12:14] >rocketkyle> an Honest John with 8 MMX motors as spinners in the ports on the nose cone
[12:14] >ben328> :D
[12:14] >rocketkyle> :D
[12:14] >jflis> No one could figure out how to make them *that* small and the MMX-1 motors were the result. Later we have the MMX-2 motors which are more powerful and easier to ignite. I would LOVE to find a source (or become a source) for those original motors...
[12:14] >jflis> I am pulling up a pix of those motors. hang on about 10 seconds... :)
[12:14] >rocketkyle> 5
[12:14] >rocketkyle> 4
[12:14] >rocketkyle> 3
[12:15] >rocketkyle> 2
[12:15] >rocketkyle> 1
[12:15] >jflis> check out: https://jflis.com/hobbies/rocketry/photos/femto03.jpg
[12:15] >rocketkyle> wow
[12:15] >ben328> that doesn't look humanly possible
[12:15] >jflis> you will see a glider (FAR too small for MMX motors), a 24mm, 18mm, 13mm, MMX and two of these small motors :)
[12:15] >jflis> here is an end view: https://jflis.com/hobbies/rocketry/photos/femto02.jpg
[12:16] >Elapid> thats the pic that inspired the question
[12:16] >Elapid> :)
[12:16] >jflis> You can see the MMX is an MMX-1 while the smaller motors have real clay nozzles...
[12:16] >jflis> Elapid, I kinda thought so.
[12:16] >Elapid> :)
[12:16] >Elapid> i go for the extremes... way big and way small
[12:16] >jflis> Those two motors are a "7" and a "25" meaning 7 meters of altitude with a minimum diameter 1 gram rocket
[12:16] >jflis> kewl
[12:16] >rocketkyle> haha
[12:17] >Cydermaster> they would be great fun for in the garden
[12:17] >jflis> I have a flying 1:1600 Saturn V that uses those puppies :)
[12:17] >rocketkyle> :eek:
[12:17] >ben328> the burns are only a fraction of a second right?
[12:17] >jflis> oh yea, just a little burst of power then done :)
[12:17] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[12:18] >hokky> pass
[12:18] >jflis> k
[12:18] >jflis> rocketkyle, you're up!
[12:18] >rocketkyle> i mentioned the honest john with 8 MMX motors in the ports
[12:18] >rocketkyle> ...
[12:18] >jflis> yes....?
[12:18] >rocketkyle> yea, that would be interesting
[12:18] >rocketkyle> just saying
[12:18] >rocketkyle> pass
[12:19] >jflis> You could probably do that with the MMX in the Estes Maxi-Honest John if you had the electronics... :)
[12:19] >jflis> k
[12:19] >jflis> ben328, you're up!
[12:19] >ben328> i'm thinking 25 engine cluster?
[12:19] >jflis> ouch!
[12:19] >ben328> something small and extreme?
[12:19] >jflis> :D a man after my own heart :)
[12:19] >rocketkyle> im going to go. bye
[12:19] >ben328> cya
[12:19] * rocketkyle ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:19] >jflis> later rocketkyle! thanx
[12:19] >jflis> i've done up to 4 motor MMX clusters and Bill Spadafora (CMASS) has done 5...
[12:20] >jflis> brianc, you're up!
[12:20] >brianc> I hate to bring up the motors again... But has Quest stopped production (relying on the 5-year supply)? If you were to take over, would there have to be a re-cert process for the manufacturer? Have you planned for/included that timeframe in the overall scheme so there isn't a lapse?
[12:20] >ben328> I have oine other non MMX question
[12:20] >ben328> another*
[12:20] >jflis> k, ben, go for it then i will back up to brianc
[12:20] >jflis> besides, it gives me time to think :)
[12:21] >ben328> will there be anyother "foam" rockets by flis I think they add a cool touch to rocketry
[12:21] >EchoVictor> Tempus Fugit!!!
[12:21] >ben328> maybe a 2 stage as something different?
[12:21] >ben328> or cluster
[12:21] >ben328> ?
[12:22] >jflis> we're contemplating it. Specifically the UFFO (Unidentified Flying Foam Object) :) Watch for a possible announcement on 1-September... :D
[12:22] >ben328> lol
[12:22] >ben328> k
[12:22] * DPatell ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[12:22] * DPatell enters
[12:22] >jflis> now, back to Brianc question:
[12:22] >ben328> lo d
[12:22] >jflis> Quest has currently stopped production on the MMX motors waiting to empty their inventory before making more. When made, they have to make a *boat-load*, so...
[12:23] * DPatell ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:24] >jflis> If it were to come to pass that Quest decides to stop production (something that HAS NOT happened), and if FlisKits were to take that on, we would simply be making the same motors at the same motor production facility. I am sure there will be some paper work changes needed to change names, but there shouldn't be anything beyond any standard ongoing testing required and, yes, we have taken that into account.
[12:24] >jflis> :)
[12:24] >jflis> cydermaster, you're up!
[12:24] >Cydermaster> pass
[12:24] >jflis> k
[12:24] >jflis> echovictor, you're up!
[12:24] >EchoVictor> k
[12:25] >jflis> 5
[12:25] >jflis> 4
[12:25] >jflis> :
[12:25] >EchoVictor> pass
[12:25] >jflis> :)3
[12:25] >jflis> k
[12:25] >jflis> sorry, just razzin' ya :)
[12:25] >jflis> Elapid, you're up!
[12:25] * brianc is now known as brianc_passes
[12:25] * Elapid passes
[12:25] >jflis> k
[12:25] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[12:26] >EchoVictor> got one, can I come back?
[12:26] >jflis> yep, go ahead and post, i'll answer in the order they appear :)
[12:26] * Ryan ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[12:26] * Ryan enters
[12:26] >jflis> hi Ryan
[12:26] >ben328> lo ryan
[12:26] >Ryan> hey hey
[12:26] >EchoVictor> Since I joined late, what are the first 5 kits that are to be released?
[12:27] >jflis> We are looking at the following (all proto[s built and test flown, currently working on the instructions):
[12:27] >jflis> Teeny Triskelion, Petite Praetor, Diminutive Deuce, Ulysses, Intergalactic Man of Space :)
[12:27] >jflis> I love them and they fly *great*!
[12:27] >jflis> k, back to hokky, do you have a question?
[12:27] >hokky> not right now Jim
[12:28] >jflis> k
[12:28] >jflis> Ryan, perfect timing. we're having our FlisKits fireside chat about Micromaxx. do you have a question?
[12:29] >jflis> ben328, how 'bout you?
[12:29] >Ryan> No, not really, I just popped in to see whats going on
[12:29] >jflis> k :)
[12:29] >Ryan> I didnt know you have MMx kits though
[12:29] >jflis> oh, if i go too fast and skip past you as you're typing your question, just enter it and we'll get to it :)
[12:29] >Ryan> but for my question: are you coming to METRA tomorrow?
[12:30] >jflis> Ryan, nope, can't make it to METRA (sorry...). As for MMX, we're (FlisKits) are taking over the kit line from Quest Aerospace as they have announced the decision to discontinue it and turn it over to us. :)
[12:30] >jflis> cydermaster, you're up!
[12:30] >Cydermaster> pass
[12:30] >jflis> k
[12:30] >jflis> echovictor, you're up!
[12:31] >EchoVictor> What is the Ulysses?
[12:31] >jflis> hang on, i'll post a pic :)
[12:32] >jflis> hhmmm, i don't seem to have a pix on our site yet (i will fix that this afternoon). It's a tall slender model, minimum diameter with a payload section. 4 fins with small dowels that go from the fin tips to the top of the main body tube. very cool little rocket :)
[12:33] >ben328> I have one question?
[12:33] >jflis> Ben, can you hold for just a moment. we'll be back around to you in a min :)
[12:33] >jflis> elapid, you're up!
[12:33] >ben328> k
[12:33] >Elapid> pass, thanks
[12:33] >jflis> k
[12:33] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[12:34] >hokky> pass
[12:34] >jflis> k
[12:34] >jflis> Ryan, you're up!
[12:34] >Ryan> are the kits gonna be plastic like the quest ones or build your own?
[12:34] >jflis> oh man, where do I start?? :)
[12:34] >ben328> lol
[12:34] >jflis> FlisKits MMX kits will be "builders" kits
[12:34] >Ryan> okay so not the plastic things like you can buy now
[12:34] >jflis> All balsa parts (some plastic detail parts), but nose, adapters and blocks will be all balsa
[12:35] >jflis> They will not be anything like what Quest currently offers and, in fact, FlisKits declined to take any ofthe Quest inventory as those are not the type of kits we wish to produce or sell
[12:36] >jflis> Our kits will provide for you altitudes of 75-200 feet and will show you what can *really* be done with MMX motors. Do not discount them as they can do a lot of work if used in the right kits :)
[12:36] >jflis> I hope to be providing a lot of details on each kit in the coming weeks on our web site, so keep watch!
[12:36] >jflis> ok, Ben, you're up! (see, that didn't take long :) )
[12:36] >ben328> do you think something thike this could be done...
[12:36] >ben328> https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18798
[12:37] >ben328> maybe one engine in each SRB
[12:37] >ben328> have it with no seperation
[12:38] >jflis> oh, i'm sure that would work :) It would be a great thing to suggest in that thread, that's for sure. As for FlisKits, we don't currently have plans for a space shuttle kit (the molds would be quite expensive... :p )
[12:38] >jflis> :p
[12:38] >jflis> cydermaster, you're up!
[12:38] >Cydermaster> pass
[12:38] >ben328> it could be made out of balsa and cardstock etc..
[12:39] >jflis> k
[12:39] >jflis> Ben, the boosters would be easy enough to make, but the shuttle is a killer :)
[12:39] >jflis> echovictor, you're up!
[12:40] >ben328> good point
[12:40] >jflis> :)
[12:40] >jflis> Elapid, you're up!
[12:40] >Elapid> the current plastic rockets come at 2 for $5 retail. do you have any idea of pricing on the new MMX kits? will they be available singly as well as in microfleet form?
[12:41] >jflis> Our MMX kits will be in the range (just an est at this time) of $4.95 - $7.95 depending on the kit. Yes, they will be available individually. At the end of the year (mid-december) we would announce our Micro-Fleet 05 which
would contain all of the MMX kits announced in 2005 :)
[12:42] * brianc_passes is now known as brianc
[12:42] >jflis> While our prices are higher, we are contending with lower volume and, hence, higher per part costs (including documentation). In return, you are getting a MUCH higher quality kit that will perform 10 times better. It's a good balance, we think :)
[12:42] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[12:42] >Elapid> yep
[12:42] >hokky> are any of the planned kits clusters?
[12:43] >jflis> The Diminutive Deuce is a 2-motor downscale of our Deuce's Wild!, so yep :)
[12:43] >jflis> Ryan, you're up!
[12:43] >hokky> cool
[12:43] >jflis> :)
[12:44] >jflis> Ben328, you're up!
[12:44] >ben328> pass
[12:44] >jflis> k
[12:44] >jflis> brianc, you're up!
[12:44] >brianc> With your $4.95-7.95 pricing, have you made a trip to Bentonville, Arkansas yet? :)
[12:45] >jflis> ?? not a clue... :) shwish, right over my head... LOL
[12:45] >brianc> HQ of WalMart
[12:45] >jflis> oh!
[12:45] >jflis> LOL
[12:45] >ben328> lol
[12:45] >Elapid> lol
[12:45] >jflis> Please do *not* mention walmart and FlisKits in the same chat session... LOL
[12:45] >Cydermaster> lol
[12:45] >jflis> sheesh! :)
[12:46] >brianc> I tried not too.
[12:46] * brianc is now known as brianc_passes
[12:46] >jflis> cydermaster, you're up!
[12:46] >Cydermaster> lol
[12:46] >Cydermaster> pass
[12:46] >jflis> k
[12:46] >jflis> echovictor, you're up!
[12:47] * Miss_Riley ([email protected]) has joined #therocketryforum
[12:47] >jflis> Elapid, you're up!
[12:47] >Elapid> i'm wondering if the quest marketing model (for the MMX) of packing two kits to a bag might help keep per-kit costs down... is that a possibility with the new flis line?
[12:47] >jflis> We had considered that and rejected it for the following reason(s)...
[12:47] >Elapid> maybe a deuce and tres pack
[12:48] >jflis> the bulk of our kit costs is in the turned balsa items. Next is documentation then the packaging. To help with this we are going with simplified documentation (instructions) on the assumption that the MMX builder is *not* a beginner to the sport
[12:48] >jflis> We are also looking at keeping the documentation 100% gray-scale (no color). Now....
[12:49] * Ryan ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:49] >jflis> The means that there isn't a whole lot of savings by putting two kits in one bag or box. On the other hand...
[12:50] >jflis> The plastic kits that Quest currently produces has (this is only my personal beleif) packaging that represents the highest cost of the kit.
[12:50] >jflis> Hence, putting two kits in one package saves significant dollars that are then passed onto the customer.
[12:50] >jflis> Additionally...
[12:50] >jflis> If we kit two in one (say a deuce and a tres) and you loose the deuce, you're going to want to replace the deuce but not really want another tres. this creats problems.
[12:51] >jflis> We feel that one kit per package is the best way to go, with the additional "fleet
[12:51] >jflis> product to go with it.
[12:51] >jflis> hope this helps!
[12:51] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[12:51] >Elapid> yepk, thanks
[12:51] >hokky> no further questions jim
[12:51] >jflis> k
[12:52] >jflis> Miss_Riley, welcome :) we';re having a FlisKits fireside chat about MMX kits. If you have a question,
you're up! If not, just let us know and we'll move on to the next person
[12:52] >Miss_Riley> Hi Jim. I'm posting on behalf of Starbug.
[12:52] >jflis> k
[12:52] >jflis> go for it :)
[12:52] >Miss_Riley> He'd like to know if you intend to release the designer special pack at the same time as all the kits?
[12:52] >jflis> Good question (we had a different designer special question earlier)...
[12:53] >jflis> Yes, we will have at least *one* designer special announced with our initial kits
[12:53] >jflis> I would suspect that there will be others (perhaps several) designer specials that will appeal to different folks.
[12:53] >jflis> Some ideas include:
[12:53] >jflis> Standard (1 or 2 specials) with a mix of nose cones and tubes
[12:54] >jflis> Large: with a mix of larger tubes and cones along with adapters and such
[12:54] >jflis> competition: parts with a focus on several competition events. these would include special compeition grade fin stock and such
[12:54] >ben328> nice
[12:55] >jflis> theses are just the current thoughts. we will be guided by our customers desires. the first kit released will be a general designer special kit :)
[12:55] >jflis> hope this helps!
[12:55] >Miss_Riley> I guess I'd better not set my heart on a holiday this year then - he'll spend all the money on MMX kits! Thanks
[12:55] >jflis> k, we will go thorugh the list TWO more times to see how the questions are going. If there is still strong interest, we can keep this going as long as we want. But it looks like it is tapering down a bit so let's see what comes :)
[12:56] >jflis> Ben328, you're up!
[12:56] >ben328> I was wondering about a downscale of the decafinator for the MMX maybe out of dixxie cups or someother material
[12:56] >ben328> ?
[12:56] >jflis> Miss-Riley, have a MMX holiday! They make great tree ornaments :D
[12:56] >ben328> lol
[12:56] >jflis> Ben... LOL oh man...
[12:56] >jflis> I can tell you *this* much...
[12:56] >Miss_Riley> never thought of that! :)
[12:56] >jflis> it flies great!
[12:56] >jflis> :D
[12:57] * EchoVictor is now known as EchoVictor_passes
[12:57] >jflis> Someone came up to me at NARAM wiht one that he had built the night before (for MMX motors) and went off to fly it. It didn't look stable, and it wasn't
[12:57] >jflis> so...
[12:58] >jflis> i felt compelled to give it a try with condiment cups (those little paper cups) and it flew great, though only about 20 feet :)
[12:58] >jflis> who knows :) if not a kit, certainly a set of free plans :)
[12:58] >ben328> I also thought of trying my shuttle idea and see what it all involves and how hard the shuttle is and then sending it to you
[12:58] >ben328> they could be free plans to if desired
[12:59] >jflis> one idea that someone at CATO had was to take one of the gliders from our Tri-Glide kit and make a MMX glider out of it. It didn't go very high, but it *did* fly, and flew well too :)
[12:59] >jflis> ben, sounds great :)
[12:59] >jflis> cydermaster, you're up!
[12:59] >Cydermaster> pass
[12:59] >jflis> k
[12:59] >Elapid> pass
[12:59] >jflis> elapid, you're up!
[13:00] * EchoVictor_passes is now known as EchoVictor
[13:00] * M0bil3WiK1 ([email protected]) has joined #TheRocketryForum
[13:00] >jflis> EchoVictor, we'll come back to you, you're up!
[13:00] * andy_passes is now known as andysrockets
[13:00] * andysrockets is back (gone 01:16:24)
[13:00] >EchoVictor> What is the "standard" recover system (break-apart, tumble/ streamer) for the kits?
[13:01] >ben328> I didn't think of the echo
[13:01] >jflis> Streamers for most, feather weight for the Intergalactic man of space. Also, ...
[13:02] >jflis> some of the kits (like the Teeny Triskelion and the Petite Praetor) have such small areas for recovery devices, that we are contemplating "break-apart" recovery for those. It is very difficult to get the streamer installed...
[13:02] >jflis> so, anywho, a mix of things. But I don't forsee using parachutes as there simply isn't any need for these small models...
[13:02] >jflis> hokky, you're up!
[13:02] >EchoVictor> BTW, I'm finishing up my StingRay right now. Awesome kit!
[13:02] >jflis> echo: thank you :)
[13:03] >jflis> Mobil3wik1 (sheesh! :) ), you're up! (we're haveing a FlisKits fireside chat about our new MMX kits, if you have a question...)
[13:04] >M0bil3WiK1> Think i'll pass, thanks :)
[13:04] >jflis> Miss_Riley, you're up!
[13:05] >Miss_Riley> What's the availability, Jim? Can we order direct from you, or is this product going through the UK distributor?
[13:06] >jflis> All FlisKits products can be ordered directly through FlisKits at any time. At the time they are made available on our site they will also be availalbe to our distributors and our retailers world wide. If what you want is not avaialble to you locally, or if you wish to not purchase there, plesae come direct to us and we'll take good care of you :)
[13:06] >jflis> We will go one more time through the list then open it up free-for-all style for a few minutes and just chat... :)
[13:06] >jflis> andysrockets, you're up!
[13:07] >andysrockets> miss just asked my question! so pass
[13:07] >jflis> k
[13:07] >jflis> ben, any last questions?
[13:07] >ben328> nope waiting for free for all
[13:07] >jflis> cydermaster, you?
[13:08] >Cydermaster> pass
[13:08] >jflis> echovictor, any last questions?
[13:08] >EchoVictor> Are you planning on stickers or waterslide decals for the kitss?
[13:09] >jflis> If we do decals, they will be silkscreened (not printed) waterslide decals. We are working on a deal where
we can get a good price without the outragiously high volumes...
[13:09] >jflis> elapid, any last questions?>
[13:09] >Elapid> no, thank you jim!
[13:10] >jflis> k
[13:10] >jflis> hokky, any last questions?
[13:10] >hokky> no thanks Jim
[13:10] >jflis> k
[13:10] >jflis> MObil3wik1?
[13:11] >jflis> Miss_Riley, any last questions?
[13:11] >ben328> can we call you MO?
[13:11] >M0bil3WiK1> Call me WiK ;) I can't think of anything, cheers.
[13:11] >Miss_Riley> Starbug has just asked how many nosecones, bodytubes, decals etc. you can fit inside a Fliskits mug - for ease of packaging, you see?
[13:11] >Miss_Riley> :D
[13:11] >jflis> LOL oh man, *that's* ripe! LOL
[13:11] >Miss_Riley> I just give up on him!
[13:12] >jflis> Well folks, this has been great! I hope you have enjoyed it as much as I have. I will hang around for a bit so feel free to ping me with any last minute questions you may have, and let's just chat for a bit.


Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2009
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Elapid, yes thank you :)

It was a good chat. Attendance started out light, but grew as we went on. Some great questions in there. If you read through it and want some claification, please post a reply.



Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2009
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I always seem to miss these vendor chats! Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing some scale models from FlisKits. Whether they are MMX or not, I'm really excited to hear you guys are looking into scale stuff. The MMX HoJo sounds cool! Thanks for posting the transcript. It's kinda like reading a vendor interview article in a rocketry mag. :)


Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2009
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'cept ya can't take it to the can...:eek:

...or can you?...[face_ewww]

Thanks Elapid. It was a great read.