FlisKits: Deuce Bash!

[jflis]

Yep, that's right! A Deuce-Bash contest! We've talked about it and here it is. Running from right now through the end of March, send in your exciting versions of the Deuce's Wild! for great prizes!

For full information, Please Click Here

Basically, we're looking for designs that employ the Deuce motor mount design (sorry, no, Deuce motor mounts are not available for sale). To answer some of the questions that have come up:

- Up and down scale designs are acceptable
- You do *not* have to use the whole Deuce's Wild! kit, just the engine mount (or an up/down scaled version of it)
- Designs that *do* use the kit and nothing else will get additional points in judging
- You don't have to build and fly your model, but some data must be provided to show that your model will fly (Barrowman, RockSIM, SpaceCAD, swing test, whatever)
- You can enter more than once
- Designs that have been entered into the DOM contest are ALSO elligible for the Deuce-bash contest, but you must re-submit

Prizes are:
Grand Prize: $50 FlisKits Bucks gift certificate plus a Deuce's Wild! kit and 2 custom Deuce's Wild! engine mount kits

1st Prize: $20 FlisKits Bucks gift certificate plus a Deuce's Wild! kit and 1 custom Deuce's Wild! engine mount kit

2nd Prize: A Deuce's WIld! kit

NOTE: The awarding of a 1st place prize is dependant on receiving 5 or more entries. Awarding of a 2nd place prize is dependant on receivng 10 or more entries.

Contest closes at midnight (EST) 31-March-2005

Good luck and have fun!
jim

 

[SwingWing]

Sounds like a fun contest Jim!!

Originally posted by jflis

NOTE: The awarding of a 1st place prize is dependant on receiving 5 or more entries. Awarding of a 2nd place prize is dependant on receivng 10 or more entries.

I don't think that's gonna be a problem!!

 

[brianc]

Originally posted by jflis
Basically, we're looking for designs that employ the Deuce motor mount design
(sorry, no, Deuce motor mounts are not available for sale).

Long ago, someone posted a PDF pattern for BT55, BT60 and 2.56 ID Duece rings...

https://rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3228#post31228

Let the contest begin!

 

[jflis]

kewl, that should help!

I will be posting this information in several areas. Please, if you know of a group that should know about this, feel free to spread the word.

jim

 

[astronboy]

OOOOh boy... I am sure glad that I already have two deuce kits on hand to mess with!!

Phred

 

[jflis]

ok, here's the question (though I can guess the answer... )

It's been asked of me several times about offering the Deuce engine mount kit for sale. I am considering doing so, perhaps just in conjunction with this contest.

While I have been asked about this as a product for a long time, the number of requests have gone up because of this contest so the idea is under scrutiny again.

The price would be in the neighborhood of $4.45 and would contain two engine tubes, two motor blocks, the custom ring set and a set of instructions.

I am seeking input from the folks here.

thanx,
jim

 

[SwingWing]

I think you should. The DW and those 15 degree canted MMTs have become the signature of Fliskits. I think you should offer the motor mount kits in 13mm, 18mm and 24mm. (I realise that the 18mm mount could be kitted up from parts on hand, and the 13mm & 24mm would require purchasing scaled rings)
Has your reluctance to realease it thus far stemmed from concerns of marginally stable designs? Or just wanting to keep the DW lineage pure, with it being the only 15 degree canted motor bird available?
If it is concern over design stability, I don't see anymore concern with the DW MMT than any other cluster, and possibly less so. This contest kinda crosses that line anyway.
If your desire is to keep the DW lineage pure, well I can't fault ya for that!

 

[jflis]

It has been more of a protection of the design sort of thing... Silly, but the Deuce took off to such an extent and has become, as you said, a signature item. But the requests have been steady ever since the introduction of this kit and after talking with my wife and my partner we've decided to go ahead with it.

It isn't easy though This has been my baby for nearly a quarter century now...

I hadn't considered the 13mm and 24mm, but will look into that with our next phase of custom items. kewl

and thanx,
jim

 

[Rocketmaniac]

Originally posted by jflis
While I have been asked about this as a product for a long time, the number of requests have gone up because of this contest so the idea is under scrutiny again.

The price would be in the neighborhood of $4.45 and would contain two engine tubes, two motor blocks, the custom ring set and a set of instructions.

I would be interested at least one set, maybe more.......

 

[brianc]

Originally posted by jflis
It has been more of a protection of the design sort of thing...

This might surprise you, but I think you should NOT offer the MMT as a kit.

As posted earlier, the patterns are already available. If someone wants to clone
it, then they probably have the experience to ensure a stable bird. By effectively
forcing the builder to cut their own rings, it becomes a "barrier to entry", and only
those with enough initiative and desire will actually pick up the knife (or buy a
kit to bash).

The canted motors have become a 'brand' and market differentiator for FlisKits.
Diluting the brand by selling the MMT separately, would allow FlisKits to fall
back into the pack and become 'just another kit company'.

Of course, it's your business- I'm not here to tell you how to run it.

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by brianc
This might surprise you, but I think you should NOT offer the MMT as a kit.

As posted earlier, the patterns are already available. If someone wants to clone
it, then they probably have the experience to ensure a stable bird. By effectively
forcing the builder to cut their own rings, it becomes a "barrier to entry", and only
those with enough initiative and desire will actually pick up the knife (or buy a
kit to bash).

The canted motors have become a 'brand' and market differentiator for FlisKits.
Diluting the brand by selling the MMT separately, would allow FlisKits to fall
back into the pack and become 'just another kit company'.

Of course, it's your business- I'm not here to tell you how to run it.

Oh, I quite understand, and that was a big part of the original reasoning.

However, the canted motors will *still* be one of the differentiators for FlisKits as the EMK's will be billed as "Deuce motor mount kits". Also, this is (by far) not the only thing that makes FlisKits special, and even without the "Deuce's Wild!" kit, I do not beleive we would be viewed as "just another kit company", (imho)

 

[Adam Selene]

Originally posted by jflis
ok, here's the question (though I can guess the answer... )

It's been asked of me several times about offering the Deuce engine mount kit for sale. I am considering doing so, perhaps just in conjunction with this contest.
thanx,
jim

YES!!! in 13, 18, 24 and 29mm!!

you know, y'all are gonna lose. I've seen the duce that Justin spent all of december bashing.

this contest should be big fun.

 

[Silverleaf]

Jim,

I'm with BrianC.

Don't make the DW mmts available for purchase seperately. I sorta like the idea that to get one, you need to purchase a DW, or try to clone one yourself. Sort of leaves some mystique with the rocket.

Cheers,

 

[jflis]

Interesting... I've seen comments both pro and con on this idea (something that I did NOT expect)...

I've also gotten the same kind of response in email as well...


jury's still out on this one...

 

[lalligood]

Originally posted by Silverleaf
Jim,

I'm with BrianC.

Don't make the DW mmts available for purchase seperately. I sorta like the idea that to get one, you need to purchase a DW, or try to clone one yourself. Sort of leaves some mystique with the rocket.

Cheers,

Jim,

Count me in favor of NOT selling the DW MMT separately. That is truly a unique item to FlisKits and while it's not rocket science (pardon the pun) to duplicate the design, I do think that you are entitled to all benefits of it being your intellectual property. Which means in this case, to receive the full amount for that device of it being part of the full kit--IMHO that's very much a reasonable and economic way of acquiring the parts. If someone wishes to clone it (whether upscaled, downscaled or "same scaled"), well, then they should have to develop their own assembly to achieve that task...

So ultimately it begs the thought of how can you call it a DW kitbash if/when the builder never actually starts with a full & intact DW kit?!?

Food for thought...

 

[jetra2]

Agreed with lalligood...again...

It is YOUR design, Jim, and you do not have to release the MMT kit separately.

I would, though, offer a set of Deuce rings to anyone that can PROVE that they will be entering the contest, with, say, a drawing of their design.

Jason

 

[Adam Selene]

Originally posted by jetra2
Agreed with lalligood...again...

It is YOUR design, Jim, and you do not have to release the MMT kit separately.

I would, though, offer a set of Deuce rings to anyone that can PROVE that they will be entering the contest, with, say, a drawing of their design.

Jason

well of course he doesn't have to! but will he ,make more money selling Deuces AND Deuce motor mount kits or by just selling Deuces? After all this is his livelyhood!

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by Adam Selene
well of course he doesn't have to! but will he ,make more money selling Deuces AND Deuce motor mount kits or by just selling Deuces? After all this is his livelyhood!

All discussion about the Deuce MMT aside, this note sent a shiver up my spine... (A *good* shiver, but a shiver none the less)...

You hit the nail on the head, this is my livelihood, and hopefully someday, the livelihood of many. It is exciting and frightening to think about it like that...

OH, i hope to get them posted by this weekend, but we have two entries so far...

 

[rstaff3]

Cool, can't wait to see them. I thought about entering my Deuce XL-5, but that's been around for too long.

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by rstaff3
Cool, can't wait to see them. I thought about entering my Deuce XL-5, but that's been around for too long.

*NEVER* !!

go ahead, send it in. ;the more the better

 

[OKTurbo]

so....Jim....

Are you going to offer the DW motor mount kit?

 

[jflis]

Yep, at least for the duration of the contest for contestants (at least for now). Watch for an announcement shortly

jim

 

[Adam Selene]

Originally posted by jflis
Yep, at least for the duration of the contest for contestants (at least for now). Watch for an announcement shortly

jim

Jim, it's been 15 hours and we're still waiting.

 

[jflis]

*smack*



Geeze, gimme a minute (well, a few days...) I *just* got around to the December DOM fer cryin' out loud! LOL

 

[brianc]

Originally posted by jflis
Geeze, gimme a minute (well, a few days...) I *just* got around to the December DOM

Hey! You're supposed to be snowed in. What else are you gonna do?

 

[Adam Selene]

Originally posted by jflis
*smack*



Geeze, gimme a minute (well, a few days...) I *just* got around to the December DOM fer cryin' out loud! LOL

yeah but i wanna start building!

 

[rstaff3]

Originally posted by jflis
*NEVER* !!

go ahead, send it in. ;the more the better

I first sent it to EMRR and then used it for a Descon. You accept a link as the whole entry?

(ooops context loss...this was re: my Deuce XL-5)

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by rstaff3
I first sent it to EMRR and then used it for a Descon. You accept a link as the whole entry?

(ooops context loss...this was re: my Deuce XL-5)

Sorry, no... If you could send me your design as a separate entry. thanx,
jim

 

[rstaff3]

I didn't really expect so. I'm just lazy and didn't want to do a new write-up, and it didn't seem right to use the exact same material.

 

[jflis]

so....Jim....

Are you going to offer the DW motor mount kit?

=========================
Yep, at least for the duration of the contest for contestants (at least for now). Watch for an announcement shortly

jim
================================


Jim, it's been 15 hours and we're still waiting.

THERE!