Fliskits Deuce 29 Build Thread

[gdjsky01]

One tip to tip done

@curtisheisey did you ever do the 38??!

 

[gdjsky01]

More 'finage'

 

[cjl]

@kuririn No. I MADE them longer because they otherwise only fit CTI 2 grain cases. I wanted 3 grain because I have 2 of those, and 2 AT 29/180s, and 2 AT 29/240s

I know it looks hokey. But think if I paint them like a candy cane???

For what it's worth, you can get one looking pretty close to right while also enabling much longer motors by making the angle a bit shallower between the motors and also scooching them up a little further relative to the base of the rocket. I did that for my upscale 54mm with a 6" diameter and was able to fit all the way up to the 6 grain 54 while still maintaining almost reasonable looks. My build thread is still somewhere in the archives here, but I'm sure all the photos and links are dead, but here's a video at least (and being as old as it is, it's potato quality but you can get the idea at least)



I'll see if I can find some better build pics to show what I'm talking about. Yours should still fly fine - the huge fins give these a ridiculous stability margin, but the long MMTs are prone to landing damage.

 

[gdjsky01]

For what it's worth, you can get one looking pretty close to right while also enabling much longer motors by making the angle a bit shallower between the motors and also scooching them up a little further relative to the base of the rocket. I did that for my upscale 54mm with a 6" diameter and was able to fit all the way up to the 6 grain 54 while still maintaining almost reasonable looks. My build thread is still somewhere in the archives here, but I'm sure all the photos and links are dead, but here's a video at least (and being as old as it is, it's potato quality but you can get the idea at least)



I'll see if I can find some better build pics to show what I'm talking about. Yours should still fly fine - the huge fins give these a ridiculous stability margin, but the long MMTs are prone to landing damage.

Using the kit supplied 3D printed centering rings, there was no way to change the angle.
I'll look for the thread. Thanks.

 

[cjl]

Yeah, it would definitely have involved a lot more modification (and I'm sure it doesn't need it to fly well), it's just a problem I ran into before and you can kinda get around it while maintaining that classic Deuce profile.

 

[gdjsky01]

Two coats of filling primer. The glassing job is so getto/garbage I am not really worried about the finish. This is the first collision with FG cloth in years. Maybe the last for a while. I'd have been better off making thicker fins and using a Dremal to open up the slots in the aft CR.

No matter! I'll look the part from 50 or 60 feet (15 to 20m).

 

[Sandy H.]

Two coats of filling primer. The glassing job is so getto/garbage I am not really worried about the finish. This is the first collision with FG cloth in years. Maybe the last for a while. I'd have been better off making thicker fins and using a Dremal to open up the slots in the aft CR.

No matter! I'll look the part from 50 or 60 feet (15 to 20m).

Looks fine from here!

As far as the fiberglass job, it looks to me like you used a nice lightweight weave and it looks like you applied it well without a bunch of bubbles etc. It appears that the glass could be a tiny bit dry, but maybe I'm wrong.

The method I was instructed in involved getting more of the glass outside the area wet and trimming it off with a hobby knife when it was 'green' ( somewhat like leather, still pliable, but not floppy).

Unless it was such a pain that you simply don't want to mess with it anymore, I think you're on a good track for proper use of fiberglass for this size rocket. Too many people use too much epoxy and cloth that is too thick. Seems like you are on the right track. For sure, I am no expert, though. . .

Sandy.

 

[gdjsky01]

Looks fine from here!

As far as the fiberglass job, it looks to me like you used a nice lightweight weave and it looks like you applied it well without a bunch of bubbles etc. It appears that the glass could be a tiny bit dry, but maybe I'm wrong.

The method I was instructed in involved getting more of the glass outside the area wet and trimming it off with a hobby knife when it was 'green' ( somewhat like leather, still pliable, but not floppy).

Unless it was such a pain that you simply don't want to mess with it anymore, I think you're on a good track for proper use of fiberglass for this size rocket. Too many people use too much epoxy and cloth that is too thick. Seems like you are on the right track. For sure, I am no expert, though. . .

Sandy.

Hi Sandy!

That is virtually what I did. Trim while 'green'. It was easy to trim, on the fin edges anyway. Just a simple single edge razor blade and a slight sawing motion.

Honestly the cloth is so lightweight I doubt it'll do anything for the strength. The bubbles are not that bad. I laid down a bunch of bubbles with CA as I found them after the epoxy cured. Thing is, if I understand correctly, I can not 'sand away bubbles' otherwise you completely weaken the layup. I think I should have asked for someone to make me a ring to use 1/4" fins. But as I said, It'll look the part.

I ran over to Ace and picked up their blue and yellow rattle cans. I 'figured out', LOL, that the 'painting template' is one half of what is needed. The instructions really are not Flis instructions. But I get it. So I'll just go with the sheeps and do blue and yellow. I need a Ukraine logo for a fin or two.

So I am waiting for the primer to fully cure. Then shoot the yellow. Then mask. Seal the mask with a tad more yellow, then blue. I was hoping to maiden out near North Edwards AFB next weekend.... but that seems a tad aggressive right now.

This is the first kit I've paid more than $100 for in 10 years. Can't says as I'll do so again. Tho Mach One rocketry and Dragon Rocketry keep tempting me. I am running out of old astronomy stuff to sell!

Thanks for following along!

 

[Sandy H.]

Hi Sandy!

That is virtually what I did. Trim while 'green'. It was easy to trim, on the fin edges anyway. Just a simple single edge razor blade and a slight sawing motion.

Honestly the cloth is so lightweight I doubt it'll do anything for the strength. The bubbles are not that bad. I laid down a bunch of bubbles with CA as I found them after the epoxy cured. Thing is, if I understand correctly, I can not 'sand away bubbles' otherwise you completely weaken the layup. I think I should have asked for someone to make me a ring to use 1/4" fins. But as I said, It'll look the part.

I ran over to Ace and picked up their blue and yellow rattle cans. I 'figured out', LOL, that the 'painting template' is one half of what is needed. The instructions really are not Flis instructions. But I get it. So I'll just go with the sheeps and do blue and yellow. I need a Ukraine logo for a fin or two.

So I am waiting for the primer to fully cure. Then shoot the yellow. Then mask. Seal the mask with a tad more yellow, then blue. I was hoping to maiden out near North Edwards AFB next weekend.... but that seems a tad aggressive right now.

This is the first kit I've paid more than $100 for in 10 years. Can't says as I'll do so again. Tho Mach One rocketry and Dragon Rocketry keep tempting me. I am running out of old astronomy stuff to sell!

Thanks for following along!

Sounds like you're doing at least as well as I would have (not saying a whole lot. . .) but the important part is that it is going to be a workhorse, I bet. The Deuce design is so great and the fiberglass/other work you've put in means that if it deploys in a reasonable/marginal way, it will fly the same day if desired.

Look forward to the launch report(s).

Sandy.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

For what it's worth, you can get one looking pretty close to right while also enabling much longer motors by making the angle a bit shallower between the motors and also scooching them up a little further relative to the base of the rocket. I did that for my upscale 54mm with a 6" diameter and was able to fit all the way up to the 6 grain 54 while still maintaining almost reasonable looks. My build thread is still somewhere in the archives here, but I'm sure all the photos and links are dead, but here's a video at least (and being as old as it is, it's potato quality but you can get the idea at least)



I'll see if I can find some better build pics to show what I'm talking about. Yours should still fly fine - the huge fins give these a ridiculous stability margin, but the long MMTs are prone to landing damage.

On my upscale Deuces, I reduce the cant angle so I could get 4 grain motors in instead of being limited to 2 grain motors. 11.5deg in the 54 mm and 12 deg in the 98 mm. They do fly on 1 motor but the 98 mm doesn't get high enough on 1 M1419 for the chutes to open before it hit the ground. I put a camera on the butt plate between the motors for a unique view.
Build of the 98 mm https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/bigger-deuce.47449/
Maiden flight of the Deuce98
Deuce 54 on AT & CTI
Deuce 54 on CTI K160 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIeyxgBlJ4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Hr4gJ2SvI
BTW, your 2019 Tripoli card and my avatar is the Deuce98 on Aerotech M1075s.

 

[gdjsky01]

On my upscale Deuces, I reduce the cant angle so I could get 4 grain motors in instead of being limited to 2 grain motors. 11.5deg in the 54 mm and 12 deg in the 98 mm. They do fly on 1 motor but the 98 mm doesn't get high enough on 1 M1419 for the chutes to open before it hit the ground. I put a camera on the butt plate between the motors for a unique view.

Those were awesome flights!!!!!

As I mentioned the centering rings for the kit are 3D printed. I assume ABS. So changing the angle was out of the question unless I threw away about $30 worth of the kit. I'd like to figure out how to make my own out of wood (or pay for some) with different angles. 2x24 and 2x38s. TVM's method was to layout the rocket in 100% scale on paper. Not exactly the way I want to go. I'll check out your thread.

What did you use for starters? Looks like you got everything going all at once, even the AT vs CTI.

Again awesome flights!

 

[Rocketjunkie]

98 mm copper thermite. 54 mm usually the starters that come with the motors. One exception was the AT vs CTI flight used copper thermite. WARNING copper thermite is as sensitive as flash powder! Our chub launch controller has plenty of current for even the Aerotech starters (5A each).

 

[gdjsky01]

This is the first kit I've paid more than $100 for in 10 years. Can't says as I'll do so again. Tho Mach One rocketry and Dragon Rocketry keep tempting me. I am running out of old astronomy stuff to sell!

To be clear... I don't mean not buying a Deuces 29 again, I mean paying that much for any kit period. Maybe everything is more expensive, but I just can't see (right now) paying more than $120 or so for some paper tubing, plastic, and wood. Especially since most 'kits' are just tubes, a nose cone, fins, and rings. Nothing else. I HAD to have the 29 Deuces because I could not find the rings and templates for a scratcher.

 

[cjl]

They do fly on 1 motor

Yes they do, and they even fly on one motor and then the other sometimes.

My most unique flight was when I unintentionally airstarted a K555 at LDRS 26, because I got one to light off on the ground, and then right after it burned out, the second K555 came up to pressure, so it boosted on one motor and then the other.

I certainly wouldn't try to do that intentionally, but it was cool.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

To be clear... I don't mean not buying a Deuces 29 again, I mean paying that much for any kit period. Maybe everything is more expensive, but I just can't see (right now) paying more than $120 or so for some paper tubing, plastic, and wood. Especially since most 'kits' are just tubes, a nose cone, fins, and rings. Nothing else. I HAD to have the 29 Deuces because I could not find the rings and templates for a scratcher.

Here's a build thread for my 98 mm scratch build Deuce98. I've posted this before.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/bigger-deuce.47449/ includes construction and first flight.

 

[gdjsky01]

Here's a build thread for my 98 mm scratch build Deuce98. I've posted this before.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/bigger-deuce.47449/ includes construction and first flight.

Let me get this straight... 10 years ago you built that massive Deuces 98 and used nothing but a DREMEL? No way. Ha ha... ya fooled me... No way... right?

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Let me get this straight... 10 years ago you built that massive Deuces 98 and used nothing but a DREMEL? No way. Ha ha... ya fooled me... No way... right?

2 Dremels actually, burned one out. Also a hack saw with carbide grit blade for the motor tubes, a palm sander, and a jigsaw for cutting plywood. You would be amazed how fast a carbide rotary file and 60 grit sanding drum removes glassed cardboard and plywood.

 

[gdjsky01]

2 Dremels actually, burned one out. Also a hack saw with carbide grit blade for the motor tubes, a palm sander, and a jigsaw for cutting plywood. You would be amazed how fast a carbide rotary file and 60 grit sanding drum removes glassed cardboard and plywood.

I won't say that is amazing as you already know that. Those pictures of the tube areas hogged out of the fins??? That can not be Dremel'd. No way! That would take hours... days even... And the centering rings? The bulkheads? All done be hand? If so... I feel .... so.... inadequate.

Amazing work! And you rebuilt!

 

[gdjsky01]

So I left this thread before my life CATO'd and that Rocketeer, Jeff effectively died.

This Rocketeer, who is also named Jeff, but not the one that last posted, got paint on the Deuces 29. The paint masking goes from "Suboptimal' to 'Abysmal' However it will look the part from 'safe launch' distance. What's left is decals and threaded a rod into the nose cone for any needed noseweight to be threaded on to.

 

[hobie1dog]

thanks for the pictures

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Won't need nose weight, even when flying on 1 motor.

 

[gdjsky01]

Put on my rendition of the decals. White ink-jet vinyl

 

[neil_w]

Put on my rendition of the decals. White ink-jet vinyl

How does working with the ink-jet vinyl compare to ink-jet waterslides?

 

[gdjsky01]

Well the vinyl is way easier to work with. Since it just glues on, waterproofing is not required. This was, as shown, white background vinyl. The kit comes with one 'decal' that is really just half an Avery clear inkjet label printed with the cards. Its not very 'transparent' and is again, not worth the cost of the kit. For $100+ I would have expect more and from Stickershock etc.

So far, for the FIRST ever try at this white vinyl paper, I am okay with it. But I know you have very high standards (which is a good thing).


Indeed my over all impression of the kit is, it is just okay. Somehow I think it could or should have been better. Not really a Fliskit kit. I have a lot of them. This does not quite live up to the pedigree. But it should fly ok. AND be fun. Which is I guess the point. We'll see. I wish there were STLs for 18 to 38 mm canted rings.

It still needs rail buttons before it will fly.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

When I made my upscales after I determined the cant angle. Make a triangle and glue the motor tubes to it. Take upper CR and carve out the holes for the motor tubes. For the 98, the rear buttplate is full round, the 54 is carved until it fit.
Standard (18 mm) size Deuce for comparison. Full thread at https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/bigger-deuce.47449/