FlisKits: Baffles coming soon!

[jflis]

As has been discussed in the threadEjection Baffles in the Support and Recovery forum , FlisKits will be announcing a family of baffle kits shortly.

We have just received more proto baffle rings and 3 of the 4 sets are good to go once I get documentation done. One set (for the BT-60) is a bit too tight for my liking so I am going to re-order.

I have attached a picture of all 4 (BT-50, BT-55, BT-60, & BT-70)

The BT-50 baffle uses 3 "moon sections" to route the gasses around, helping to cool them while also blocking the hot particles.

The other 3 are made with two different baffle plates with offset holes that will serve the same purpose.

In every case, the baffle rings provided are designed to fit INSIDE the provided stage coupler. This has two primary purposes:

1) Allows you to get good glue filets on each side of the ring, making for a stronger baffle
2) With the recessed ring, you have no "edge" to worry about interferring with installation. There is only the edge of the coupler itself.

Each baffle kit will come with 24-36" of #90 Kevlar thread so that you can upgrade your entire recovery system with one kit. Prices have not yet been set.

The instructions will recommend installation near the top of the model, allowing enough room for the recovery device and not much else.

The next two replies show close up of the kevlar detail with some explanation.

jim

 

[jflis]

Here is a close up of the BOTTOM of one of the baffles. It is hard to see, but you will note that the Kevlar is passed through a small hole in the ring then looped back through a slot in the ring with the knot residing INSIDE the baffle.

this will then travel the length of the baffle and exit out the top (see next reply).

The instructions will recommend that this exposed area be coated in glue or epoxy for protection.

 

[jflis]

This image shows the top of one of the baffles. In this case, the BT-60 baffle as you can note the crease in the over tight ring when I tried to install it (this will be fixed before release).

Here you can see the Kevlar exit from a slot in the ring. If you look closely, you can see where the Kevlar passes up along the inside wall of the coupler. The instructions will recommend that you glue the Kevlar to this inner wall for strength and protection.

You can also note in this picture (and the previous picture), the recess of the ring inside the coupler.

jim

 

[cls]

Jim, enough teasing already! I went to your web site last night hoping I could order some but alas ... I want to get some other stuff too, it's all waiting on the baffles. when when when? and when for the new cluster kits too?

 

[jflis]

Frankly, just as soon as I can get the documentation done....

Right now i'm working on the anniversary celebration, new hobby shops, a new educational initiative in conjunction with 5 other companies, the new skill level 1 kit needed for our anniversary launch on the 18th, 3 new cluster kits and the 4 new baffle kits... ...and a partridge in a pear tree.....

not to mention the Alien8...

I work for a freeking crazy man! He simply won't let up! Problem is, he's as crazy about rockets as i am (and I think he's schizophrenic too!)

 

[sandman]

I work for a freeking crazy man! He simply won't let up! Problem is, he's as crazy about rockets as i am (and I think he's schizophrenic too!)

No I'm not...Yes you are... shut up someone will hear us talking!

 

[JStarStar]

Originally posted by sandman
No I'm not...Yes you are... shut up someone will hear us talking!

hey, can you all keep it down? We're trying to sleep over here!!

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by sandman
No I'm not...Yes you are... shut up someone will hear us talking!

"I'm a schizophrenic , and so am I"

 

[AlexM]

that kind of reminds me of the dyslexic insomiac that lays awake at night wondering if there really is a dog.

 

[bcdlr]

Jim, can you give a short explanation (for us newbie BARs) on how this works?
I think I understand but some explanation might help...

 

[jflis]

I assume you mean baffles, and not schizophrenia...

Basically you're trying to do 2 things with a baffle (whatever the design)

1) block or trap the hot physical particles coming from the motors ejection charge.

2) Slow the pressure increase giving the heated air time to cool before hitting the parachute.

The way our baffles work (they are very similar in design to what Centuri had out years ago) is like this:

We have two baffle rings and a stage coupler.

One ring has a series of small holes (1/4" dia) running along the outter edge of the ring. The second ring also has a series of holes, but clustered in the center.

The first ring is glued to the underside of the coupler, the second ring to the top.

The theory is that any hot particles that travel from the motor to the holes along the parimeter of the bottom ring will be traveling at such an angle that they can not get through the other holes and are trapped or blocked inside the baffle. The air, under pressure, is forced through the first set of holes and has to churn around before getting out the second set of holes. This "slowing" of the pressure increase gives the heated air time to cool within the ambient air contained in the rocket itself.

I've attached an image showing what these two rings look like. In our design, you will note the bottom ring also has a small slot and a hole to provide a place to tie off the Kevlar thread. The upper ring has just a slot for passing the thread through.

hope this helps
jim

 

[Gus]

Jim,

Thanks for the nice explanation.

A few more questions:

1. Does the baffle completely eliminate the need for wadding?

2. Is there a minimum distance a baffle needs to be placed from the engine block in order for it to be effective?

3. Any plans to offer bulk packs?

4. Do you need a beta-tester for, say, 30 or so kits?

 

[JRThro]

Jim, I see that the various other activities your slave-driving boss has in the works have delayed the release of FlisKits' baffles somewhat.

When do you estimate they'll be available?

I can't wait to try one in my Quest Intruder (T-25 body tube, ID is 0.006" smaller than an Estes BT-50)

(And where's mine, btw?)


Man, you have demanding customers and potential customers! How do you put up with it?

 

[JRThro]

Oh, and I meant to facetiously ask: What, no baffles for Estes BT-20 or BT-5, or Quest T-15 or T-20 tubes?

I'm *kidding*!!!

 

[jflis]

I feel terribly about these baffles... Time has been so tight lately. I have approved several requests to participate in activities (like the upcoming Clay Center Observatory conference) along with commits we have made on getting kits released (we're about 4 weeks behind on getting the Alien8 kit out and hope to have two more out before the end of the year).

My honest to goodness goal is to have them done and released before the end of November, but I can't promise..

If I can finish up the Alien8 this week (my current short-term goal) then the baffles (along with 3 new clusters) are next...

I will keep everyone posted. As soon as I begin work on these and get materials ordered, I will be able to pre-announced a release date...

jim

 

[JRThro]

It showed up today, Jim, and looks just fine. Thanks! I'll let you know as soon as I do something with it.

 

[jflis]

FlisKits would like to announce that the all four baffle kits are now available for pre-orders!

We expect to receive the remainder of the needed parts early next week and will begin shipping within a day of receiving these parts.

all orders containing pre-order items (there are 9 new items available for pre-order at this time) will be shipped when the order can be completed.

Please visit https://fliskits.com/ for details!

jim

 

[AlexM]

Man, I am gonna get one.

 

[Bill]

Originally posted by jflis
FlisKits would like to announce that the all four baffle kits are now available for pre-orders!

Many launch vehicles have an open section between stages, from the Titan II to many Soviet/Russian boosters.

Does anybody know whether a baffle would cool the ejection charge enough to allow a short piece of clear tubing to be used to route the gas between stages?


Bill

 

[shrox]

I am baffled, does the Alien8 get baffles? A baffling question...

 

[jflis]

Nope, the Alien8 does not get a baffle (though it could certainly use one )

I don't want to start adding accessories like this to kits. Rather, make them available so that you could upgrade if you choose.

For example, in my copious free time I hope to have a link to purchase an appropriate baffle kit with each of our kits offered.

 

[jflis]

Good news!

All four baffle kits are now in stock and shipping!

I have also updated the rocket kit product pages to allow you to purchase an appropriate baffle at the same time as you select your kit!

Buy early, buy often!

 

[Stymye]

Originally posted by Bill

Does anybody know whether a baffle would cool the ejection charge enough to allow a short piece of clear tubing to be used to route the gas between stages?


Bill [/B]

baffles are designed mainly to trap burning particles(the main cause of damage) than to cool the gas .
but it seems like a do-able idea to me

 

[Papa Elf]

Originally posted by shrox
I am baffled, does the Alien8 get baffles? A baffling question...

I was going to say that!

 

[prowlerguy]

I just went to your web site, Jim, and the baffles are marked as "coming soon." How do I order them?

https://www.fliskits.com/products/01prod_fs.htm

 

[Larry]

I just went to your web site, Jim, and the baffles are marked as "coming soon." How do I order them?

prowlerguy,
If you go to products then components and click on stage couplers. The baffels are at the bottom of the page. They really do work I have one in my Corona located where the two BTs meet instead of the tube coupler. I've flown it twice and not a mark on the chute......Larry

 

[prowlerguy]

I see the problem: they are listed twice. Under couplers they are available, but under adapters/blocks they show as "coming soon." Thanks, Larry.

BTW, I plan on using mine for the Estes Vangaurd Eagle, mainly to keep the chute from sliding back past the transition, unwinding a little bit, and getting stuck in the wider tube. Has anyone else noticed this, or am I concerned about nothing?

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by prowlerguy
I see the problem: they are listed twice. Under couplers they are available, but under adapters/blocks they show as "coming soon." Thanks, Larry.

Oh, this is the type of feedback we need. I don't have the luxury of having a web developer who can sit and pour over the site. I had no idea I had this mis-information and will get it corrected.

Someone else sent me an email (i am requesting details) asking if FlisKits was still open as the pages they visited looked out of date as if the site was closed. man, I want to fix *that* in a hurry!

If you ever seen a descrpency on site, an email is very much appreciated.

thanx,
jim