Flight Card Requirements?

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tsmith1315

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(And for the record: I have refused a few 'cert flights'; one or two because of thrust to weight ratios being too low. Pretty sad, actually, when it's an L1 cert fight.. They should know this!! Not reassuring...)
That's not too surprising, given how many times you hear "low & slow" as primary advice for a cert flight.
 

dr wogz

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I vaguely remember asking / mentioning to the board at .. NYPower? URRF? to include 10 pre-printed labels* in the "flyers bag"

*Labels as described above [name, NAR/TRA# Level, etc..]
And with the intent that they can format it to match their flight cards.. Easy mail-merge since they are asking for this info when you register. (Assuming you know how to do a 'mail merge'!) And the "Flyer bags" typically have all the stuff specific to that person already in (shirt, lanyard & name-tag, raffle tickets, pen, some flight cards, field info / news letter, etc..)
 

Buckeye

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We have stopped using them. We now use a spreadsheet. It prevents physical contact.

Sheet has name, rocket names, pad#, motor, and mode of recovery.
COVID transmission through handling of objects has been debunked for a year now. What physical contact are you referring to?

I am in favor of anything that speeds up the flight line and increases throughput. So, no flight card sounds good to me.

There was another COVID thread about electronic flight cards. Not a bad idea for large HPR events to keep things moving.
 

cwbullet

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COVID transmission through handling of objects has been debunked for a year now. What physical contact are you referring to?

I am in favor of anything that speeds up the flight line and increases throughput. So, no flight card sounds good to me.

There was another COVID thread about electronic flight cards. Not a bad idea for large HPR events to keep things moving.
We moved to not using a physical flight card and having a spreadsheet. At our last launch, some filled out the cards. I prefer the spreadsheet with the flier telling you the information and you record it on the sheet. I can usually read my own handwriting.
 

DAllen

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Who is it that you think REQUIRES flight information?

Just because lemmings follow each other over a cliff, does not mean the lemmings are required to follow each other off the cliff.
So I'm a lemming now? Thanks for that.

Anyways, this is why I am asking the questions. IS IT required? Doesn't sound to me like it is. I'm getting oodles of great examples of well thought out flight cards and spreadsheets but nothing on the requirement end. So I am surmising there is no requirement for flight cards at any power level so we can just do our own thing that suits our needs and desires.
 

Steve Shannon

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So I'm a lemming now? Thanks for that.

Anyways, this is why I am asking the questions. IS IT required? Doesn't sound to me like it is. I'm getting oodles of great examples of well thought out flight cards and spreadsheets but nothing on the requirement end. So I am surmising there is no requirement for flight cards at any power level so we can just do our own thing that suits our needs and desires.
I don’t believe it is required. Some kind of log is best practice, but the information collected should be only what’s necessary for safety and range management. For different clubs that might vary considerably. Some clubs publish extensive launch reports in their newsletters or even in the magazines of their organizations and having a stack of flight cards enables that. Our club president takes pictures of the flights and then a picture of the all-in-one log sheet we use so he can properly connect a picture of a rocket to the flyer.
For many clubs a flight card is central to the entire rocket inspection process and ensure that operations don’t get lackadaisical. For example, if you truly want every flyer to label the center of pressure you can put a checkbox on the flight card to show that it has been done. Same for thrust to weight or a score of different things. I can tell you that for large launches, such as BALLS or LDRS, if an incident does happen the presence of a flight card can help immensely in figuring out where a process failed. Questions such as “How did we let that rocket fly? Was there a class 3 waiver for that O to O two stage?” can be answered. In the event of an insurance claim, having some kind of record will be important to show that the safety codes were followed as well.
It really all depends on how your launches are managed. Each club has unique circumstances. Sorry that I cannot be more help. At the board level we have briefly discussed this same question with no real resolution. That’s why it’s only mentioned in the range safety guidelines and not in any requirements that I know of.
 

prfesser

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When holding a research launch, print the research flight cards a different color. Different information, too: approximate total impulse, max thrust, propellant type, etc.

For some younger participants, filling out a flight card helps the kids to be a bit less slapdash in prepping, giving a little more attention to important details like expected altitude, stability, etc.

Best -- Terry
 

Ez2cDave

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I can usually read my own handwriting.
Typical Doctor . . . In Med School, is there a course where they teach students to write with their feet, while blindfolded ?

LOL !

Dave F.
 

cwbullet

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Typical Doctor . . . In Med School, is there a course where they teach students to write with their feet, while blindfolded ?

LOL !

Dave F.
No. They teach you medical terminology. You quickly learn the terms and that there is no way to learn to spell them all correctly so you write sloppy so not one can read them.
 

Michael L

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4CRA uses a sheet. As a newb to high power I think it's a good idea. I was going to go for my L1 cert a few weeks ago and had a malfunction. The screw that held on my lower rail button pushed the nut out of the 3D printed backer, not my design, into the body of the rocket. I had to cut a hole in the rocket, reinstall the nut, then repair the hole. Once that was done I went over the sheet and quickly discovered that there was a lot more to be done. I called off the flight. There was no way I could've gotten ready. It wasn't because of what was on the sheet. I had left myself an "easy" day to get the Av bay ready (single deploy but I wanted the tracker), pack the chute, and do last minute readiness checks. That day was eaten up by repairs. Hopefully next months weather will be kind and I'll get my L1.
 

Ez2cDave

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No. They teach you medical terminology. You quickly learn the terms and that there is no way to learn to spell them all correctly so you write sloppy so not one can read them.
That could be very "inconvenient" if a pharmacist made a mistake . . .

Dave F.
 

georgegassaway

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So I'm a lemming now? Thanks for that.
No offense intended. I was really referring to how flight cards "became a thing" decades ago (the old original lemmings), to the point that people just assume it HAS to be done.

It does NOT.

I've run launches with zero flight cards.

If it was a really big launch, things would be different. Want to be sure that the person whose rocket is being launched.... is aware of it. But at a small launch, it's not necessary.

Pretty much, if the launch is not big enough to be using a PA, it's not big enough to need flight cards.

As I said, RC plane fliers don't do flight cards, and if they do any flight logs...... it is either their person flight logs, or a club might require a person to "sign in" for the day. But not get bogged down into paperwork every time they want to take off. At least, that's the case for normal routine flying.

And back to cards, when they are done, keep them as brief as possible for wha tis really needed for the logistics of the launch (and not for people who love to collect statistics, making others jump thru hoops). The kind of info that might be justified for a 2 stage clustered level 3 flight.... is not needed to fly an Alpha on an A for 10 flights with 10 separate flight cards, so don't have "data creep" that requires info that's not really needed.
 
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cwbullet

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That could be very "inconvenient" if a pharmacist made a mistake . . .

Dave F.
Prescriptions have been typed for years. Then again, so are medical notes.
 

Ez2cDave

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No offense intended. I was really referring to how flight cards "became a thing" decades ago (the old original lemmings), to the point that people just assume it HAS to be done.

It does NOT.

I've run launches with zero flight cards.

If it was a really big launch, things would be different. Want to be sure that the person whose rocket is being launched.... is aware of it. But at a small launch, it's not necessary.
George,

As an "old timer", I always think of "Flight Cards" as being associated with NAR Competition ( one card per Competitor, per event ), where a Competitor's Duration's, Altitudes, etc. were recorded when the Timers / Trackers reported data on each flight.

Dave F.
 

PhlAsh

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Without flight card/log: "Okay! Someone put something on pad 1 - it might be an Alpha - who knows. Dunno if they RSO'd it. It's got some kind of motor in it, we hope... 5...4...3...2...1"

With flight card/log: "Little Timmy has his Alpha III, named Scooter, on pad 1. RSO says his lug could be straighter and he's got a streamer instead of a chute so we'll call this a Heads Up flight. Timmy's Scooter on a B6-4 in 5...4...3...2...1"

Note the difference.
 

boatgeek

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I'll second what @Steve Shannon and @PhlAsh said. I've volunteered as LCO a few times, and it's awfully nice to have a stack of flight cards so that I can announce the flights, including heads-up, fire risk, first flights, cert flights, etc. Having the motor announced before the button is pushed makes it a lot easier for the LCO and spectators to know what kind of flight to expect. And announcements make it easier for people to know when their rocket is going to launch so they have a better shot at recovery.

Do some clubs collect more info than needed for the above? Probably. Does a lot of that info make the RSO job easier, particularly in MPR and HPR? Probably. Do I have anything like launch cards at small private launches? Not at all. Do people ask too many rhetorical questions? Definitely.
 
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