Flight Card Requirements?

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DAllen

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Just as a matter of curiosity. Can someone point me to what information is required to be on a flight card? Looking to rebuild our flight cards and want to start with what's required and go from there...
 

cwbullet

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We have stopped using them. We now use a spreadsheet. It prevents physical contact.

Sheet has name, rocket names, pad#, motor, and mode of recovery.
 

jqavins

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At my club it's the date, flyer's name, rocket's name, staging if any, engine(s), recovery type, deployment type, and expected altitude. And, if left off, some of those are not important. The RSO adds an approval check mark, and the pad czar or LCO adds the pad assignment.
 

Steve Shannon

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This subject has come up a few times. We just keep a single list of flyers, rocket names, motor, whether it’s a cert flight, and a comment field.
I don’t know that there is a requirement to keep flight records for any specific length of time either. I find nothing in NFPA and I don’t remember just where there was a requirement to keep flight logs. Possibly in an older version of the Safety Codes?
 

samb

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Just as a matter of curiosity. Can someone point me to what information is required to be on a flight card? Looking to rebuild our flight cards and want to start with what's required and go from there...
I concur with Steve but I'm curious why you asked in the first place. Where did the idea of required info come from ? I can only guess that some minimal data might be needed in the event of an insurance claim, IDK.
 

gtg738w

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At our club it was just helpful info for the RSO to speed up the process. Flyer info and motor + any special notes like first flight or dual deploy. The RSO would weight it and sanity check the motor and the the card goes to the LCO so he can announce who and what is flying. Since COVID we've also stopped using them so we're back to just asking all the questions. Apogee has a very thorough template that is more for personal logs. So not required but I think the minimum should be what ever the RSO wants to know to make sure it's a safe flight at your field.
 

KennB

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This is what CMASS uses. We get a lot of non-club members flying with us so it would be impossible to make a list beforehand. We can easily go through 200 to 300 of these at a launch.
I like the idea from Las Vegas of having the failure check boxes for those flights that aren't quite perfect.
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DAllen

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I concur with Steve but I'm curious why you asked in the first place. Where did the idea of required info come from ? I can only guess that some minimal data might be needed in the event of an insurance claim, IDK.
I ask because its my understanding (and I could be wrong) that we're required to collect flight information in the form of flight cards. If that's truly the case, then logic dictates there is a minimum of data that needs to be collected per flight. That is what I would like to know so we can cater our cards with the required information along with any additional we desire.
 

Sandy H.

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One of the clubs I fly with (been a while. . . ) is pretty close to the CMASS example above without the 'legal disclaimer' section about motor storage. It has a bit of unused space that the LCO often uses to write notes either about the flier, rocket, flight, recovery etc., which the secretary (who does LCO duty for at least a few shifts per launch) can use when they write up the launch report posted on the website. Here is a link to a recent launch for the example of what he uses the comments for. It makes a more conversational launch report than Joe flew X. Joe flew Y. etc. . . http://www.rocketrycarolina.org/rockcaro/2021/3/30/march-21st-launch-report.html

Anyway, not sure if your club would be interested in that extra LCO content or not, but I figured I'd mention it, as I do believe the awesome reports he writes makes you feel at least a little better if you miss a launch.

Sandy.

Edit: Mike posted right after I did, but that NIRA card looks really well thought out, IMO. . .
 
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BEC

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I instituted the use of flight cards for BEMRC mainly as an aid to help me decide if the combination of model, motor and recovery system was likely to stay within the bounds of the field. We have lots of first-timers from Scout groups and such, and it's also helpful to add a little example of thinking about this sort of thing. It also helps with the "announcing" bit.

Ours are pretty simple, but the stuff I insist on having are the flyer's name, the model name/kit (especially if I don't recognize it immediately), the motor, including the delay and the recovery system type. There's space on it for listing electronics (small field, so mainly listing an altimeter if there is one for the amusement value), assigning a pad number and an outcome (OK or what went wrong).

In these COVID times, the couple of launches we've actually had I've just kept a paper log with the name, rocket, motor/delay, with the info given to me verbally as the model is assigned to a pad. I'm not sure if I'll continue in that vain once we get to passing bits of paper around again (soon, I expect) or not.
 

JoePfeiffer

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I ask because its my understanding (and I could be wrong) that we're required to collect flight information in the form of flight cards. If that's truly the case, then logic dictates there is a minimum of data that needs to be collected per flight. That is what I would like to know so we can cater our cards with the required information along with any additional we desire.
I've been under that impression as well, but the NAR safety code doesn't seem to mention it. TRA has it in their range safety guidelines, saying "Verify that an applicable flight card exists, is filled out in a legible manner, and indicates all of the pertinent flight data including but not limited to flyer name and
member number, physical vehicle parameters, motor configuration, and recovery systems." They also mention the RSO initialing the flight card, so presumably there should be a space for the initials as well.
 

tsmith1315

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We have stopped using them. We now use a spreadsheet. It prevents physical contact.

Sheet has name, rocket names, pad#, motor, and mode of recovery.
Is that a shared spreadsheet, or something an officer fills out at RSO or such?
 

georgegassaway

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You know what kind of flight card/paperwork fliers at R/C plane clubs are required to fill out for sport flying?

None. They just take off and fly.

When I ran clubs, we never used flight cards for sport flying.
 

samb

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I ask because its my understanding (and I could be wrong) that we're required to collect flight information in the form of flight cards. If that's truly the case, then logic dictates there is a minimum of data that needs to be collected per flight. That is what I would like to know so we can cater our cards with the required information along with any additional we desire.
Understood. I think collecting data on each flight at a club launch is a good thing. I think flight cards (logs, spreadsheets, etc) are a best practice that has evolved over time. I don't believe any organization (NAR, Tripoli, NFPA, UN, United Federation of Planets, Star Kingdom of Manticore, ...) has defined a requirement for their use or content. Lots of great examples given here for consideration.
 

dr wogz

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Now, I have had an "argument" over the paper it's printed on...

Our club cards are 2-per 8.5x11 standard letter size (landscape orientation: each card is 5.5x 8.5). And we will print out a few hundred a the local print shop on coloured cardstock.

We do have the flight card template as an editable PDF on the website. So you can download it, and add your basics (name, NAR#, city, etc..), and even add specific flight details (rocket name, length, avionics, etc..) But individuals then print them out on regular copy paper. (And I have them all filled out, and in the appropriate section of my flight book [at my flight calcs page] - easy to fill out motor & expected alts & such at that point!)

Some LCOs have trouble picking a paper off the table. Not so with card stock; hence the 'argument'. I've had the same discussion with a popular large event: "why can't I download the flight card?" And the same reason: handling, stacking & sorting. One popular event also uses the amount of printed cards as their "count" for # of flights. "We printed 1500 cards, and have 72 left." Mind you, that doesn't account for the few that get lost, destroyed, etc..

I have a stack of address labels with my name, NAR, city, level in my flight binder!! Peel it off, stick it on, done!!
 

Stewman

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Lots of good examples in the above that is typical of flight card recording. Our club, Tripoli MO_KAN is now requiring a thrust to weight ratio for all high power flights, which IMO is a good idea.
 

georgegassaway

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I ask because its my understanding (and I could be wrong) that we're required to collect flight information in the form of flight cards. If that's truly the case, then logic dictates there is a minimum of data that needs to be collected per flight. That is what I would like to know so we can cater our cards with the required information along with any additional we desire.
Who is it that you think REQUIRES flight information?

Just because lemmings follow each other over a cliff, does not mean the lemmings are required to follow each other off the cliff.

As for those who love to collect flight data....great. They can sit and monitor and write down everybody's models and names and stuff, and not require everyone else to be part of their data collection fetish (I do not care whatsoever how many N-sec were burned at a launch).

Don't make fliers go thru the hassle of filling out 10 cards to fly one Alpha 10 times.

It can be a bit different for HPR, and for BIG launches. But it's overkill for sport flying models in most situations.
 

icyclops

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from what I remember a long time ago the club i launched with simply used them to collect a fee for non members flying....25 cents for LP, more for med power. It had a little data on it but many used for announcing over the speakers the rocket name, type, and whether or not you wanted to push the button, if its a heads up launch....stuff like that. Info on type of motor gave the RSO an idea of how many Ds, Cs, etc. motors where used that day Tallied for the clubs monthly newsletter.
 

dr wogz

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@Stewman That should be a standard check the RSO does when signing off on the card.. Divide the impulse by 25 to see if it's above or below the rocket weight, or consult the handy graph RSO's are supposed have at their table. And it should be up to the Rocketeer to prove it's viable..

@GregC I earned the nickname 'sticker man' at one event because of this! :D (and my last name has 10 letters, and my home town is two words of 12 letters + a space, and my NAR number is...) not to mention my handwriting is pretty poor!
 

GuyNoir

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Most flight cards I see have waaaaay too much information on them. FVR's cards have the minimum needed to record the flight, and assess whether or not the rocket will stay on our field. We also have recorded the results of the flight ever since the club was started. We now have a database of our most popular failures (which are generally recovery failures, BTW).

During the pandemic, we've switched to a log with the same information.
 

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Stewman

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@Stewman That should be a standard check the RSO does when signing off on the card.. Divide the impulse by 25 to see if it's above or below the rocket weight, or consult the handy graph RSO's are supposed have at their table. And it should be up to the Rocketeer to prove it's viable..

@GregC I earned the nickname 'sticker man' at one event because of this! :D (and my last name has 10 letters, and my home town is two words of 12 letters + a space, and my NAR number is...) not to mention my handwriting is pretty poor!
I should have clarified my post - yes, the RSO does that and we do have charts we use, however, I meant to say the modeler now has to put the ratio on his flight card, showing he/she has done the calculation.
 

Stewman

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@dr wogz - And I too like you address label approach - my handwriting is atrocious, I should have been a doctor.
 

cwbullet

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@Stewman That should be a standard check the RSO does when signing off on the card.. Divide the impulse by 25 to see if it's above or below the rocket weight, or consult the handy graph RSO's are supposed have at their table. And it should be up to the Rocketeer to prove it's viable..

@GregC I earned the nickname 'sticker man' at one event because of this! :D (and my last name has 10 letters, and my home town is two words of 12 letters + a space, and my NAR number is...) not to mention my handwriting is pretty poor!
Great idea. I continue to think of a digital system that cand remember fliers and rockets. I should be easy to complete. I hate flight cards. Waste of paper and we rarely refer back to them.
 

dr wogz

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I should have clarified my post - yes, the RSO does that and we do have charts we use, however, I meant to say the modeler now has to put the ratio on his flight card, showing he/she has done the calculation.
Yes, that makes more sense. And, considering the tools we have at our disposal these days!

(And for the record: I have refused a few 'cert flights'; one or two because of thrust to weight ratios being too low. Pretty sad, actually, when it's an L1 cert fight.. They should know this!! Not reassuring...)
 
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