Flexible motor hardware casing for mid-power up to L1 attempt?

[MachMullet]

I am currently designing a mid-power airframe to fly 29mm engines and work my way up to an L1 attempt. I plan for this same airframe, should it survive, to be configurable for an L1 attempt. I am learning about, and plan to make use of, reloadable 29mm motor hardware. I value any hardware/tools that are adaptable or flexible in use, so the AeroTech RMS-29/40-120 caught my eye.

My understanding is that the 29/40-120 is compatible with a selection of E, F, and G reloads. I originally figured, when I cross the L1 bridge, I'd then purchase a single-use H impulse for the attempt.. but my present curiosity gets the better of me.
Can I find motor hardware that will serve me across E-G mid-power and entry into H?

I found a thread discussing the RMS-29/40-120 versus high-power reload options and compatibility.
The thread is from 2010-11 so I'm curious to revisit the topic;
Is there 29mm hardware available that covers a flexible selection of mid-power reloads with a sprinkling of high-power?
Alternative question - Given my goal of mid-power leading to an L1 attempt, what motor hardware would you suggest I invest in?

 

[Art Upton]

The 29/40-120 is the best use and most cost effective. Then use say a DMS H135 for the L1.

The set of HPR style hardware that runs F-G-H 29/60, 29/100, 29/120, and then the H 29/180 will cost you much more.

The 29/40-120 'Hobby Line' motor system was designed on purpose to solve the range of Mid-Power at low cost.
After you get the L1 you might then buy the HPR 29/180 motor and then move up to an HPR 29/240 case as well.

Hobby Line and HPR style cases do not mix, by design.

 

[loopy]

Get the 40-120 case for all your mid power needs. It runs reloads with a different type of propellant grain geometry (C-slot instead of bates grains, which have a hole down the center of the grain) than the other HPR style cases. There is a 29/120 case, which is HPR style and has a couple of nice G reloads for it, but I'd say if you're planning on doing more than a few high power launches with your 29mm stuff, you'll want to invest in the 29/240 case and the 29mm RAS set to allow you to fly the smaller loads in the same case. Cost savings for reloads over single use can get pretty significant over time.

 

[NTP2]

I love my 29/40-120 best for MPR by far.

 

[Art Upton]

Buying a 29/240 motor and a 29/180 case is only $10 more then buying the RAS and 29/240 motor.
You Risk MORE when flying a 180 reload in a 240 case with a RAS system if you lost it and had to replace it.

The 29/40-120 will offer all you need for E-G motors.

 

[8kcab]

I picked up the 180/360/RAS combo from Wildman for my future HPR endeavors. Seems like a good combo to me. They have a similar combo for 38mm (360/720/RAS).

 

[rsbhunter]

If you're pretty sure you're going to stick with it, go with a 29/40-120 and do a bunch of flights...in the meantime, save for the 29/180 mm and maybe 29/240 case. Or, use a DMS for certification, and go straight to a 38mm engine assembly.......and hide your credit cards, did you know you can get ALOT of rocket stuff with a credit card???? rsbhunter

 

[Art Upton]

did you know you can get ALOT of rocket stuff with a credit card???? rsbhunter

And like Ham Radio, you can sell old stuff to buy new stuff years later

 

[prfesser]

IMO your plan of a 29/40-120 plus a single use or DMS motor for certification is going to be the most cost-effective solution. You may want to wait after your L1 to consider how much, you will be flying before investing in high-power hardware. It typically takes a fair number of flights (20? 30? don't recall) with reloadables to recover the cost of the hardware, depending on the impulse.

 

[rsbhunter]

With rockets, your ROI usually means you've worn it out, passed it on/down to someone, or played hide and seek with it. But the biggest return is the smiles, memories, and time spent going through the process of planning, building, flying and sharing the child like joy of the thunderous roar, billowing smoke, and blur of your rocket racing to the sky....So yeah, you do get back more than you invest....rsbhunter

 

[Art Upton]

With rockets, your ROI usually means you've worn it out, passed it on/down to someone, or played hide and seek with it. But the biggest return is the smiles, memories, and time spent going through the process of planning, building, flying and sharing the child like joy of the thunderous roar, billowing smoke, and blur of your rocket racing to the sky....So yeah, you do get back more than you invest....rsbhunter

Humm, must be me.

I also seem to put things in a 'Safe Place', or a 'Special Place', or the worst; 'A Special Safe Place'

PPS: before my back surgery and going under, I put a few non-rocketry items in 'A Special Safe Place'
After recovery, I forgot about that for almost a year, putting them in a 'A Special Safe Place'
The more I looked the more I Never have found the 'Special Safe Place'

 

[rsbhunter]

Humm, must be me.

I also seem to put things in a 'Safe Place', or a 'Special Place', or the worst; 'A Special Safe Place'

PPS: before my back surgery and going under, I put a few non-rocketry items in 'A Special Safe Place'
After recovery, I forgot about that for almost a year, putting them in a 'A Special Safe Place'
The more I looked the more I Never have found the 'Special Safe Place'

That just means you're an over achiever in picking "safe" places....good thing is, they couldn't torture the location out of you!!!! rsbhunter

 

[soupmanrmc]

I used a AT 29/180 case w/ RAS for a G77R first flight, followed by my L1 using H128W a couple of hours later.

I just recently picked up the 29/40-120 for MPR launches as it is a bit more practical for unwaivered flights.

 

[rsbhunter]

My 29-240 assy, and 29-180 will be here tomorrow..., my new 4" Super DX-3 should be here Friday or Saturday. Biggest rocket to date....should be exciting....rsbhunter

 

[soupmanrmc]

4" is about the magic spot for me right between cost and fun. I notice the popularity of the DX3 and now I want one in my fleet!

 

[Art Upton]

4" is about the magic spot for me right between cost and fun. I notice the popularity of the DX3 and now I want one in my fleet!

Back in the day, everyone wanted and had a LOC IV, when Ron Schultz owned it.

Now the DX3 has that spot

Edit: Well I had a Heavy Duty Beauty, which was a LOC IV with 4 24mm mounts around the center 29mm mount.
Today the LOC IV has a 38mm mount, which is a good thing.

 

[rsbhunter]

The Super DX-3 has a 38 mm tube, I have a reducer from Slimline...so I'm good to grow into 38mm.... your right though, anything bigger , or fiberglass , goes up in cost exponentially....rsbhunter

 

[Handeman]

I am currently designing a mid-power airframe to fly 29mm engines and work my way up to an L1 attempt. I plan for this same airframe, should it survive, to be configurable for an L1 attempt.

I think this is going to be your biggest issue/problem. Not what type of hardware you chose.
A mid-powered rocket that flies on F & G motors, especially on that flies on the HobbyLine range of E to G motors is going to be way too small for a L1 attempt. If it flies to 400 ft. on an E motor, it's going to be about 800 ft. on a F motor. A HobbyLine G motor, a 1/2 G, is going to push it over 1500 ft. If you put a L1 it, you will be looking at over 2000 ft., maybe near or over 3000 ft. Assuming motor eject, you are in for a really long walk and you must recover it for a cert attempt.

I would recommend flying the HobbyLine motors and cases in various mid-powered rockets. Take that experience and build a larger rocket ( 4 - 6 lbs.) with a 38mm MMT for your L1 attempt. Something that will stay near the 1000 ft. mark with a baby H motor. Then when the conditions are right, you can push it to 3000 - 4000+ ft. with a large I motor and JLCR and still have a reasonable chance of recovering it. Then you can fly the full range of L1 motors without building another rocket.

 

[dhurstell]

The Super DX-3 has a 38 mm tube, I have a reducer from Slimline...so I'm good to grow into 38mm.... your right though, anything bigger , or fiberglass , goes up in cost exponentially....rsbhunter

You can get it with a 54 too

 

[rsbhunter]

My Super DX-3 , cardboard and wood, according to open rocket and Rocket Reviews, using a 38 to 29 adapter, 29-180 case and H128w should put me right at 900'-1000'. For certification, I'm more concerned with success than show. I'd love to get into 5"+ diameter rockets and k,l,m motors, but I don't have the acreage to launch, nor recover. Plus, I'd rather launch 3 or 4 times a month , which i do now on mpr's. I will be able to launch my DX-3 on small H motors up to about 1400' and still not have to worry, except about the $$$$$$....rsbhunter

 

[NateB]

I would recommend flying the HobbyLine motors and cases in various mid-powered rockets. Take that experience and build a larger rocket ( 4 - 6 lbs.) with a 38mm MMT for your L1 attempt. Something that will stay near the 1000 ft. mark with a baby H motor. Then when the conditions are right, you can push it to 3000 - 4000+ ft. with a large I motor and JLCR and still have a reasonable chance of recovering it. Then you can fly the full range of L1 motors without building another rocket.

I took this approach. I built a Darkstar Jr and flew it motor deploy without the payload section on a H133 to just over 1500 on a breezy day. Others were chasing rockets pretty far, but keeping it closer to the ground meant I only had to walk near the away pads to get it.

I can't recommend the Wildman Juniors enough for L1. Fly them short or dual deploy and you have a versatile rocket for different conditions. The Minis are perfect with the 40-120 case.

 

[Neutronium95]

My understanding is that the 29/40-120 is compatible with a selection of E, F, and G reloads. I originally figured, when I cross the L1 bridge, I'd then purchase a single-use H impulse for the attempt.. but my present curiosity gets the better of me.
Can I find motor hardware that will serve me across E-G mid-power and entry into H?

The Cesarioni 29mm 4 grain case and a pair of spacers could get you F-H, while the 3 grain case and spacers would get you E-H, albeit with a reduced number of H motors. That said, I can't really recommend investing in Cesaroni hardware at the moment, they've been having supply issues and lots of reloads aren't currently available.

Aerotech is a bit more complicated. A 29/180 case and the Reload adapter system would allow for flights of F,G, and H motors. However these are HPR style reloads, and aren't compatible with the 29/40-120 hobbyline hardware. There also isn't much selection, with one F motor, and a limited selection of G and H motors. The F and G reloads for the HPR style hardware are also more expensive than their equivalent hobbyline reloads. For example the 29/120 G77W reload is $31, while the similar 29/40-120 G64W reload is $26, and you can occasionally find screaming deals on them.

If you plan on flying a decent amount of midpower, the 29/40-120 hardware set is an amazing buy. The G reloads in particular are a great value, especially if you get them form a vendor offering a discount. For HPR, I'd suggest starting with Aerotech DMS motors. In smaller sizes like 29 and 38mm, they're very close to reloads in price, so there isn't a huge economic incentive to go reloadable. Reloads do offer more variety in most sizes, so you might want to invest in hardware after you have a few HPR flights under your belt and you have a firmer idea of what you want to fly.