# First Level 1 rocket?

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#### RazorConcepts

##### Member
What would you reccomend as my first level 1 rocket? I don't plan on going above level 1. Thanks.

#### MarkM

##### Well-Known Member
You'll get as many recommendations for an L1 rocket as there members of this forum.
Kits from PML, LOC or Binder Design in the 2.5"-4" range all make excellent and simple L1 rockets.

I don't plan on going above level 1.
Yeah, right. Famous last words. That's what many say and before they know it, they're shootin' for their L3!

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#### Donaldsrockets

##### Well-Known Member
I used a BSD Sprint for my L1. It's a pretty sizable rocket being 5 feet tall and 3 inches in diameter.

Gives excellent flights on H motors and even flies decent on G motors too.

One of these days I plan to fly mine on the H268R or I200W and see just what it's capable of!!!

Since BSD is currently down, check out Binder Design. They've got some awesome kits at reasonable prices.

#### Handeman

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Mark pretty much hit the nail on the head. You'll get as many recommendations as there are members on this site.

I recommend you answer a few questions.

Do you want to always fly the rocket on H & I motors, or do you want to be able to fly it on F & G motors too? or maybe a small J motor?
Do you want low and slow, or high performance and altitude?
Do you want to try Dual Deployment?
Your answers to that questions will pretty much determine if you get a kit in the 25-50 oz. range or something in the 50-120+ oz. range. Also if it's a near minimum diameter or something short, fat, and draggy.

For something low and slow you can fly with F & G motors, try a Binder Design Thug.
For High performance but still fly on F & G, try a Public Missiles Limited Callisto.
A L1-2 with the ability to use hybrid motors and dual deployment, would be the LOC HYPERLOC 300.
The Performance Rocketry Mad Dog would be a L1-2 fiberglass rocket that would be 5lbs standard, or 7 lbs with DD. Standard can be low and slow on a H and DD version can fly on I while it will scream on a L.

There are literally hundreds of kit you could get. Price is going to be a factor too, at least for most of us. Think about what you want to fly, how high, how you'll fly it after your cert, and what your budget it.

One piece of advice I have, get the largest motor mount tube you can, even if you don't think you will use it. You can adapt down, not up.

BTW, Mark is right about the famous last words.

TRF Supporter
double post???

LOC HI-TECH

#### BsSmith

##### Well-Known Member
Yank Mystic Buzz, if you can find one.

If not, Talon 2 or 3

#### fox_racing_guy

##### Well-Known Member
Yank Mystic Buzz, if you can find one.

If not, Talon 2 or 3
These are available from LOC/Precision :dark:, you have to call though it's not in the catalog.

#### BsSmith

##### Well-Known Member
These are available from LOC/Precision :dark:, you have to call though it's not in the catalog.
Ahhh... So that's why the Mystic Buzz is in LOC's folder on Rocksim! It's a great rocket, flies arrow strait and whistles, and it will fly on a G. I got mine from Magnum just before they stopped selling stuff.

#### Viperfixr

##### Born Again Rocketeer
If I had to redo my L1 in the most simple way today, I would go for a 2.5-4" body tube diameter LOC, PML or Binder rocket. I recently flew my LOC Graduator on it's first H powered flight on an H165, and it was a perfect cert-like flight. Here are some other choices:

- PML X-caliber, Tethys, Ariel or 1/4th Patriot

- Binder Excel Plus or Isis 38mm

- LOC Graduator, IV, Bullet, Forte, Isis, Shadowhawk, Tweed B or Lil Diter

It's hard to go wrong with most 38mm motor mount rockets. Stubby rockets might present more of a weight & balance challenge than you want in a first HPR. My L1 and L2 rocket was a BSD 38 Special. I highly recommend BSD, but they are on hiatus for awhile--kits not currently available (but Wolfstar says that will hopefully change soon...).

Keep it simple, keep it easy, don't get complicated or fancy.

#### bobkrech

##### Well-Known Member
I would suggest a 4" simple 3 or 4 FNC rocket for your L1 cert. This type of rocket is inexpensive to build, and won't go over ~1500' or exceed M ~ 0.4.

I did my L1 with a 4" 4.5 pound 4FNC rocket on a CTI Pro38 H400. It pulled 20+G off the pad so it didn't weathercock, producing a straight and quick up and down flight that landed close to the pad.

Talk to your club members for their recommendations.

Bob

#### Pantherjon

##### Well-Known Member
That is pretty much what I did for my L1 as well..Well, the successful one! My first attempt I tried doing dual deploy for the first time as well...But, yeah, what Bob said..I did mine on an Aerotech Sumo rocket on an H123...Use the KISS pricipal, it is your friend!

#### Handeman

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
That is pretty much what I did for my L1 as well..Well, the successful one! My first attempt I tried doing dual deploy for the first time as well...But, yeah, what Bob said..I did mine on an Aerotech Sumo rocket on an H123...Use the KISS pricipal, it is your friend!
Why didn't you go the DD route on the second try?

I agree with the KISS principle when it's applied to the techniques, methods, and engineering used to obtain your goal, not when it's applied to the goal itself.

I had several rockets I could have done a L1 cert on, but decided I wanted to learn as much as I possible could about L1 rockets and to scratch build a DD rocket for my L1 attempt on an I motor. Once I decided on that, I applied the KISS principle to the design and constructions of the rocket. That design, although as simple as I could make it, did include my goals of DD, an I motor, making my own nose cone, and sewing my own elliptical parachute. I don't think you should let the KISS principle get in the way of achieving goals, you need to use it to help you achieve your goals, there's a big difference.

#### Pantherjon

##### Well-Known Member
Why didn't you go the DD route on the second try?
Probably because I was unsure of myself and was shy in asking for help.
I agree with the KISS principle when it's applied to the techniques, methods, and engineering used to obtain your goal, not when it's applied to the goal itself.
True..
I had several rockets I could have done a L1 cert on, but decided I wanted to learn as much as I possible could about L1 rockets and to scratch build a DD rocket for my L1 attempt on an I motor. Once I decided on that, I applied the KISS principle to the design and constructions of the rocket. That design, although as simple as I could make it, did include my goals of DD, an I motor, making my own nose cone, and sewing my own elliptical parachute. I don't think you should let the KISS principle get in the way of achieving goals, you need to use it to help you achieve your goals, there's a big difference.
The real problem I had when I did my first L1 attempt along with my 1st DD flight, was that I rushed myself..I could have just as easily flown the same rocket using just motor eject and done fine..But, I think also, I was trying to 'show off' a little? I had done a TON of reading on prepping a DD flight, but actually putting it to practice I stumbled..Hard..Post flight autopsy of the rocket revealed I didn't have enough space between the altimeter's barometric sensor and the sled..But, live and learn..

#### RazorConcepts

##### Member
Thanks for all the help. I was trying to see if there was a single rocket that most people used for these things, but looks like most rockets are good

So now I have a choice... but from the start the wildman jr. rocket just looks great to me. Good price, all fiberglass construction (I never really liked working with wood), and a payload bay. This may be the one

#### bobkrech

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the help. I was trying to see if there was a single rocket that most people used for these things, but looks like most rockets are good

So now I have a choice... but from the start the wildman jr. rocket just looks great to me. Good price, all fiberglass construction (I never really liked working with wood), and a payload bay. This may be the one
L1 does not need glass. 4" LOC, Binder Design, or Pole Cat Aerospace kits with 38 mm mounts in the $80-$120 range are simple and easy to build L1 cert rockets.

http://shop.rocketsbymelissa.com/category.sc?categoryId=15

http://binderdesign.com/store/page2.html

http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/-strse-Polecat-Aerospace-cln-4"-Kits/Categories.bok

You can also get these kits from many vendors.

Bob

Bob

#### AKPilot

##### Well-Known Member
Aerotech Sumo is my recommendation.

#### FlyBoy

##### Well-Known Member
The Polecat 4" Goblin has a 54mm motor tube and with an adapter can be used for level 1 and 2, just in case you should decide level 1 isn't enough.

#### cls

##### Well-Known Member
scratch-build your L1 rocket using a Crayon bank!

#### El Cheapo

##### Well-Known Member
I plan on beefing up the fillets on a 2" Diam 100% scratch tube fin I recently built for my L1 in October. It flies great on 29mm G's. After this weekend, we're done w/MPR and HPR launches until September. It get's too flippin' hot to be out in the middle of the desert. I may decide to do it then. I've got other kits that are more than capable but plan on saving one for a glassed L2 dual deploy. For some reason it just means more to me that I've built and designed on my own rather than buying a kit. The L2 kit, which is a Madcow Striker, will be far from stock, fully glassed, dual deploy, handle the longest 38mm motor and have a boattail.

#### Bill P

##### Well-Known Member
The Polecat 4" Goblin has a 54mm motor tube and with an adapter can be used for level 1 and 2, just in case you should decide level 1 isn't enough.
I love my Polecat 4" Goblin. It does pretty well on a J-motor, I did my Level 2 on this rocket. It flies respectably on H and I-motors. It loves the Loki I110.

This is a good rocket for K.I.S.S. Level 1 certification flight.

A rocket in the 3"-4" diameter range is a good rocket for certifying L1 and can be used for L2 (it'll happen ). Get the larger motor mount diameter, as others have already said, it can be adapted down, not up.

Consider dual a dual deploy rocket. It can be flow K.I.S.S., motor ejection at apogee. Then after you cert you can play with electronics and get a good handle on dual deploy then.

The best opinion I can share with you is to: talk with the guys that you fly with at the field. They know the field and what works and doesn't work in it. They are your gems.

#### Diosces

##### Well-Known Member
Last year I took Hande's recommendation on a Binder Thug as a good medium/high power rocket. Bought it with a 38mm motor mount. Spur of the moment at MDRA launch I did my L1 on it without a hitch. Will also fly well on G78 or 80's.

Extremely STURDY 4" dia rocket so it's got some longevity.
It's next scheduled flight in June is on an I600R :dark:

#### Pem Tech

##### Well-Known Member
We would like to suggest our King Kraken.

She is sleek and sexy and flys great on about everything from a G77 up through H180 and I hope to fly her on a three grain AMW/Pro38 I motor at NSL this year.

#### Pem Tech

##### Well-Known Member
Oops, forgot to post the obligatory launch photo.

King Kraken on an H180....

#### BsSmith

##### Well-Known Member
I also like the Kraken, I'm just about done with mine. (IT'S SHINY!!! )

I'm planning on launching it on a 2 grain Blackjack H at NSL. (Get it? Squid squirting ink?)

#### RazorConcepts

##### Member
Looks sleek but are those fin tubes cut by hand? Something like that is exactly the type of thing I screw up on

#### Pantherjon

##### Well-Known Member
Looks sleek but are those fin tubes cut by hand? Something like that is exactly the type of thing I screw up on
Yes...Actually, it isn't all that difficult of a task to do..Just some patience and making sure you have the proper measurements marked on the tube of where to cut

#### Pem Tech

##### Well-Known Member
Looks sleek but are those fin tubes cut by hand? Something like that is exactly the type of thing I screw up on
As pantherjon said, it isn't all that difficult, our Destruction Manual takes you through the process step by step. Measure, draw and cut with an new hobby knife blade. The best bit is that The King Kraken is so different everyone will notice your cert flight.