You are right it is a semi auto, I have several. I also have several revolvers. My point being the fake ones look more realistic than the real ones. Rounds can also be very realistic, No powder, no primer and no death!!!
Widespread firearms ownership in the civilian population isn’t the only way to guarantee freedom.
You had me at chosen.But it's the way that America has chosen. If I wanted it any differently, I'd live somewhere other than where I do.
Ordinarily if there is going to be a firearm pointed at the camera, there should be plexiglass shield in-between. It’s been this way since 1993.I would like to make a point that might not go over well. Here we go.....
You are working on a set that a bunch of people walked off of due to lax safety and gun problems. What would make you think that standing next to the camera while they know a gun will be pointed at and fired at the camera is a good idea?????
Cries of victim blaming in 3...2...1...go
I think openly stating whether I approve of this choice and whether or not we should choose differently going forward is beyond the scope of the forum rules and this topic. Perhaps we could move on from this particular point and focus on the on-set shooting?But it's the way that America has chosen. If I wanted it any differently, I'd live somewhere other than where I do.
Considering number 5, numbers 12 and 13 make me think Alec Baldwin should definitely be held as responsible as anyone else in the crew. Although several people share the blame.
I fully expect no charges will be filed against him though.
Much of this is news to me and it radically changed my perception of what may have transpired.I found this list that had been compiled from various media reports of what went wrong.
This is NOT my list, it comes from someone named John Nolte.
He notes "......everything is, at this point, speculative. ":
- To save money, the producers combined the armorer job with a prop job. These should’ve been separate jobs, especially in a Western where you will have a lot of guns. The armorer should be focused solely on gun safety.
- Members of the crew used the guns for target practice. This means they were loaded with real bullets and fired. There are reports this happened the night prior to the fatal shooting and even the morning of. You never-ever-ever put real bullets in a prop gun.
- Live ammo was mixed with blanks on the set. Live ammo should never-ever-ever be allowed anywhere on a set where functioning prop guns are being used.
- There had already been two or three misfires on the Rust set, meaning guns had fired accidentally. If this is true, everyone involved should have been immediately fired.
- Crew members resigned the morning of the shooting over, among other things, safety concerns. This should have been a red flag for the producers to pause and recalibrate and double down on safety procedures and training sessions.
- The armorer, a 24-year-old woman, did not have the experience required for the responsibilities involved, most especially with her also being assigned double duty in the prop department.
- The functioning prop firearms were not secured during the lunch break. Instead, they were left out on a cart.
- After lunch, the first A.D. grabbed a functioning prop pistol off the unsecured cart, handed it to Baldwin, and shouted, “Cold gun!” which means that nothing will happen if you pull the trigger. No blanks, no nothing. And here is where everything apparently went horribly wrong…
- The armorer obviously did not clear the gun. The most likely scenario is that a live bullet was still in the gun from that morning’s target practice. It’s also possible (but improbable) there was a blank and something jammed in the barrel — a pebble or something.
- The first A.D. did not clear the gun. He is supposed to double-check the armorer, who might not have even been present when all this went down.
- The first A.D. did not show the actor (as required) that the gun was empty, the cylinder was clear, and the barrel was clear. He (or the armorer) are then supposed to point the gun at the ground and pull the trigger six times.
- Baldwin did not demand the first A.D. show him the gun was empty. With his 40 years of set experience, along with his role as star and producer, he should have gotten in the first A.D.’s ass over this.
- Baldwin did not check the gun. This is especially egregious after the first A.D. failed to prove to him it was unloaded.
- Baldwin was given a functioning gun during rehearsal. This should only happen when cameras roll. For rehearsals, you use a rubber gun or, if you have to, a stick.
- Baldwin pointed a functioning gun at a human being. This is beyond irresponsible, beyond comprehension, especially after neither he nor the first A.D. checked the gun, especially after two previous misfires and the guns being used for recreational target practice.
I found the list after looking up the author's name.I found this list that had been compiled from various media reports of what went wrong.
This is NOT my list, it comes from someone named John Nolte.
He notes "......everything is, at this point, speculative. ":
I'm fascinated by the need to qualify the statement that the armorer was inexperienced by adding the bit about being a 24-year-old woman. By all means, talk about prior experience and issues on prior sets. Sure, talk about age, if the average age of a Hollywood armorer is significantly different from her age. But considering that Annie Oakley was touring with Buffalo Bill by age 25, shooting cigars out of her husband's mouth and hitting playing cards edge-on, I'm not sure that the age or gender in and of themselves are issues.
I agree.I'm not sure that the age or gender in and of themselves are issues.
+1.The fact that she's the progeny of a legendary Hollywood armorer speaks more to potential nepotism being her primary job qualifier than anything else.
Welcome to 8 pages of discussion and a lot of relevant material you skipped.Ever fire a weapon? One of the first thing learned is "DON'T ASSUME THE GUN ISN"T LOADED". You're dealing with a life and death situation. Baldwin ASSumed.......no ifs ands or butts (no pun intended)
Widespread firearms ownership in the civilian population isn’t the only way to guarantee freedom. Combining respect for long-standing democratic tradition and separation of powers with consistently disowning dishonest or authoritarian candidates and cultivating a peace-loving culture works well.
New Zealand actually outranks the United States in global freedom indices despite having a blanket ban on semiautomatic firearms, magazines, and parts.
Norway outranks the United States as well but has specific ownership, documentation, use, and qualification requirements that are not present in all American jurisdictions.
At the risk of being accused of victim blaming, also there are panels a camera operator is supposed to stand behind. And remote camera operations are a thing. And if I'm a technical camera person in charge of shooting, well, shooting; I should have stopped the armorer and AD and actor when each of them violated their safety requirements. Hence a failure of safety culture generally.I found this list that had been compiled from various media reports of what went wrong.
This is NOT my list, it comes from someone named John Nolte.
He notes "......everything is, at this point, speculative. ":
- To save money, the producers combined the armorer job with a prop job. These should’ve been separate jobs, especially in a Western where you will have a lot of guns. The armorer should be focused solely on gun safety.
- Members of the crew used the guns for target practice. This means they were loaded with real bullets and fired. There are reports this happened the night prior to the fatal shooting and even the morning of. You never-ever-ever put real bullets in a prop gun.
- Live ammo was mixed with blanks on the set. Live ammo should never-ever-ever be allowed anywhere on a set where functioning prop guns are being used.
- There had already been two or three misfires on the Rust set, meaning guns had fired accidentally. If this is true, everyone involved should have been immediately fired.
- Crew members resigned the morning of the shooting over, among other things, safety concerns. This should have been a red flag for the producers to pause and recalibrate and double down on safety procedures and training sessions.
- The armorer, a 24-year-old woman, did not have the experience required for the responsibilities involved, most especially with her also being assigned double duty in the prop department.
- The functioning prop firearms were not secured during the lunch break. Instead, they were left out on a cart.
- After lunch, the first A.D. grabbed a functioning prop pistol off the unsecured cart, handed it to Baldwin, and shouted, “Cold gun!” which means that nothing will happen if you pull the trigger. No blanks, no nothing. And here is where everything apparently went horribly wrong…
- The armorer obviously did not clear the gun. The most likely scenario is that a live bullet was still in the gun from that morning’s target practice. It’s also possible (but improbable) there was a blank and something jammed in the barrel — a pebble or something.
- The first A.D. did not clear the gun. He is supposed to double-check the armorer, who might not have even been present when all this went down.
- The first A.D. did not show the actor (as required) that the gun was empty, the cylinder was clear, and the barrel was clear. He (or the armorer) are then supposed to point the gun at the ground and pull the trigger six times.
- Baldwin did not demand the first A.D. show him the gun was empty. With his 40 years of set experience, along with his role as star and producer, he should have gotten in the first A.D.’s ass over this.
- Baldwin did not check the gun. This is especially egregious after the first A.D. failed to prove to him it was unloaded.
- Baldwin was given a functioning gun during rehearsal. This should only happen when cameras roll. For rehearsals, you use a rubber gun or, if you have to, a stick.
- Baldwin pointed a functioning gun at a human being. This is beyond irresponsible, beyond comprehension, especially after neither he nor the first A.D. checked the gun, especially after two previous misfires and the guns being used for recreational target practice.
Ever fire a weapon? One of the first thing learned is "DON'T ASSUME THE GUN ISN"T LOADED". You're dealing with a life and death situation. Baldwin ASSumed.......no ifs ands or butts (no pun intended)
Sure, just ignore 8 pages worth of discussion on the use of photorealistic dud ammo, division of labor and expertise on a set, and distribution of causal factors along the entire causality chain. Minor things, trivial even.Baldwin will get off, which is a shame. They will act like it wasn’t his responsibility to ensure his gun wasn’t loaded with live ammo, basic firearm safety be damned. when you’re handed a gun you assume it’s loaded until you check it yourself.
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