Filament winding

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Hello,

its a bit old, but I made a fibre winding machine myself, and got some tubes ready, I wind with carbon fibre.
My problem is, to get them really flat outside, there is still a bit of up and down on the surface after shrinkwrapping.
How do your tubes look after curing? Totally flat?

Louis
 
Hello,

its a bit old, but I made a fibre winding machine myself, and got some tubes ready, I wind with carbon fibre.
My problem is, to get them really flat outside, there is still a bit of up and down on the surface after shrinkwrapping.
How do your tubes look after curing? Totally flat?

Louis


Looks like I missed a lot of requests in this thread, my apologies. I received a lot of private emails, and responded there. I'll take some pictures of finished products, both on and off mandrels to give you an idea of the finished product. I can also provide links to the third party products I use (release agent, shrink tape, etc... To answer this specific problem, I have no issues with any flat spots, or up and down after shrinkwrapping. Do you use the machine to lay down the shrinkwrap? As long as the spacing is correct, I've never had an issue.

I've used two methods with the shrink tape.

The first is just to lay down the shrink tape directly on the final wind layer, with what looks like no-spacing, but no overlap on the tape. When the tube goes through it's heated cure stage, the tape shrinks, and the excess epoxy oozes between the winds onto the outside of the heatshrink tape. When I take the tape off, it does have a small spiral of excess epoxy (I may have a photo of this), which I use a 3d sander to remove. I then use my airbrush and some water-future floor polish to create a final coat that creates a super shine.

The second method is to put a layer of peel-ply, and a layer of breather cloth down first (same I use for vacuum bagging from aerospace supply), then the shrink wrap tape, but this time I use a 50% overlap of the shrink wrap tape on the wind. End result is similar, with more resin removed, but I still have to sand the final layer, as it creates those little "dots" where the resin seeped through the peel-ply.
 
Finally found the time to collect photo's of thing's I've filament wound.

To start off, here is a pm I sent on doing mandrel's, and where to get some of the supplies:

Thanks for the note. I've used many different mandrels. The absolute easiest is to buy paper tubing from uline in almost any diameter you need. The cardboard doesn't add much weight, and you don't need to do anything once you are finished. I've done several cardboard tube-based mandrels, and they have all worked out quite well. I've also used large aluminum 6061 tubes (I have this 6" diameter one from amazon:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...rch_detailpage ). They work well, but you will need to use mold release grease on it before starting to wind, and will have to build something to help get the carbon fiber tube off of the aluminum once you are finished. These days, I use almost exclusively dissoluble 3d printed mandrels. for small mandrels, you can use PVA (https://www.makergeeks.com/wasopva10.html) which is water soluble, but I've found it's kind of brittle and can't handle lot of load. I now use high impact Polystyrene filament (https://www.makergeeks.com/hiimpohfi3.html) which dissolves in d-limonene (from amazon:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._bw_g121_i2_sh). You wind some amazing structures by printing them in dissoluble 3d strucutres. I've built transitions, nose cone's, interstage couplers, etc... hope this helps.

spirals.jpg

You are looking at a traditionally wound 38mm tube on a copper mandrel, in which I used the shrink-tape method of compression and curing. You can still see the excess resin winding down the tube where the epoxy oozed between the tape winds. I have not prepped this tube at all, this is exactly what it looks like when I take off the tape, minus the dust. That plate on the top is a part of a door, which I use to push the carbon fiber part off of the copper mandrel.

tape vs vacuum bagging.jpg

On the right, is exactly the same tube as the photo above, while the tube on the left I applied peel-ply, breather material, then vacuum bagged it. I also sanded it down the little holes the teflon coated peel-ply leaves, which is why it has a matt finish.

tape vs vail.jpg

Once again, on the right is the traditional tube. On the left, I used a final vail of two carbon tapes of a slightly different finish wound at a very, very low angle. Gave a much cleaner finish. Note, it's not a perfectly round tube either, as I used a 3d printed part as the mandrel to make a monopod for my camera.

bsalt tube.jpg

On the right, is still the original tube. The almost translucent tube was wound using nylon 645 filament, and the 50% overlap method of shrink-tape. I had to use a totally different method to wind the nylon since it isn't necessary to use epoxy, you just need heat. Compared to carbon fiber, this is a very expensive option. The CF tube on the right cost about $5 in consumable material, while the nylon tube cost about $15. Will make a fantastic night flyer though :>

flax.jpg

This was wound using linen! Specifically, Linen is actually flax filament - the fibers from the flax plant, which are 3x stronger then cotton. Just used some woodglue on the ends.

resin filament nosecone.jpg

The nosecone was wound using PETT filament (specifically, t-glase). You can kind of tell I had to 3d print the tip, and use it as the end of the mandrel since I don't have a 4 axis winder. Should have been completely clear. the discoloration is due to the chemical I used to dissolve the mandrel.
 
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How many feet of CF tow did it take to make the 6" 5ft section?

I wound that one a bit thick.

I buy the CF filament on eBay - Rolls of about 15k feet 6k tow costs $95 (this is a good supplier: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-fib...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557) . I used about 10k for for that tube - the software will predict the length of filament required based upon the filament size tube size, and windings.

Craft tubes come from uline - $1.32 each (https://www.uline.com/Product/Detai...2-Kraft-Mailing-Tubes-with-End-Caps-125-thick)

Heat shrink tape comes from eBay (only use Dr. Shrink, or Dunstone, which have a release coating) - $5 to $10 per role: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunstone-2...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


So, cost about $60 in filament + about $10 in epoxy + $1.32 for the cardboard + $5 (half a role) of Hi-shrink tape = $15 in consumables, $77 in total. Costs go up if I vacuum bag.
 
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I've made a few nosecone's, and done a lot of testing.

which version of the filament winder did you buy? They have a new extra axis version which is much better suited for nosecones.

As it stands, Conical, Spherically blunted, ogive, and tangent/ogive are difficult since you can't wind around a point without the extra axis.

Haack, Von Karman, and Aerospike work very well. I use a 3d printer using PVA filament to design the nosecone andI wind around the 3d printed shape. I then dissolve the PVA to get a carbon-fiber only nosecone. I've copied most of the industry, and use a metal tip at the end for the last part of the nosecone I can't wind.

I've written some code to build the Haak seris and Von Karman windings. Send me a PM if you would like me to share.


Alex
Hi Alex,

I was wondering if you could post the code for making a Von Karman wound nosecone? I tried to send you a PM, but I am worried that it may have been eaten by the forum.
 
Hi Alex,

I was wondering if you could post the code for making a Von Karman wound nosecone? I tried to send you a PM, but I am worried that it may have been eaten by the forum.

Hi Rocket501,

Sorry if I missed something. Software is more like a python script that takes SCAD input of a nosecone and modifies the gcode output of x-winder designer. I'm happy to do it for you.

steps:
1) create Von Karman nosecone without a shoulder in openscad, and print it on a 3d printer using HIPS filament, and send me the STL

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3536927
I've posted Mr. Kaslow's excellent SCAD nosecone designer up on Thingiverse. I modified it so you can use it in the thingiverse customizer, or download the scad file and use it on your local machine. Just choose Von Kármán from the dropdown, and set it up as you need it. The MOST important part - SET SHOULDER LENGTH TO 0 AND SHOULDER INSET TO 0, finally check "ignore printer size" - this will give me a complete STL output of the nosecone. When you print it, if your printer isn't large enough, you can uncheck "ignore printer size" and print it in pieces. I however need the single STL


2) Calculate the Z distance from the delivery head midpoint to the closest face of right mandrel post when carriage is in the home position. - This may be your designer settings

1589304078092.png

3) Tell me the filament Width and thickness of the tow you are using.

If you are not sure, just give me the TOW designation you are using and I can figure it out.

4) tell me the desired number of layers, or desired thickness, but only pick one!

5) Tell me how much of the tip to cut off of the top, to be replaced by a metal, or other fashioned tip. Remember, this is for a 2x filament winder which can't wind around a point.

I'll then run it through my modifier to create the output gcode for winding. Let me know if you want to add a shrink tape run and/or a heatgun run at the end. You can also create those yourself with the designer as there isn't any winding angle, carriage speed, or rpm changes in those modes.

I'm hesitant to post the python, primarily because it's a total undocumented hack.
 
Great stuff. I can wait to try out the nose cone maker tonight.
 
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