Fantasy Motors

jqavins

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OK, I know "What new motors would you like to see?" threads have been done. This time I'm asking for really out-there fantasy motors.
  • A no thrust (or trivial thrust) all tracking smoke "motor" for effects. Maybe even with colored smoke options.
  • A whole new motor size intermediate between Micro Maxx and 13×45 mm, so maybe 10×35 mm. A quick, crude calculation suggests 1/2A BP motors could be made at that size.
  • Composite, sugar, or some other stronger-than-BP propellant in the 13×45 and smaller form factors, so all of those can go up a letter. (Maybe the propellant that Klima uses; if no one will import their engines then maybe someone could license their formula. But now I'm getting dangerously close to something practical.)
 

Tractionengines

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This,
A no thrust (or trivial thrust) all tracking smoke "motor" for effects. Maybe even with colored smoke options.
but here are 2 questions:

Would these "no-thrust" effect motors need to be certified by NAR / Tripoli/ etc ? (Assuming California Fire Marshall would need to approve for CA regardless.)

If you "made it yourself" would you need to be TRA L2, and use at TRA launch only as Research "motor"?
 

smstachwick

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OK, I know "What new motors would you like to see?" threads have been done. This time I'm asking for really out-there fantasy motors.
  • A no thrust (or trivial thrust) all tracking smoke "motor" for effects. Maybe even with colored smoke options.
  • A whole new motor size intermediate between Micro Maxx and 13×45 mm, so maybe 10×35 mm. A quick, crude calculation suggests 1/2A BP motors could be made at that size.
  • Composite, sugar, or some other stronger-than-BP propellant in the 13×45 and smaller form factors, so all of those can go up a letter. (Maybe the propellant that Klima uses; if no one will import their engines then maybe someone could license their formula. But now I'm getting dangerously close to something practical.)
Hoo boy this is dangerous. So much good stuff out there already.

But if pressed, I’d say expanding options up and down in existing casing sizes would be a good start.

I’ve got a few hot rods that go pretty high on their smallest recommended motors. My Goblin will only stay under DART’s 1000ft ceiling on C11s, so sometimes I wish that there were 24mm As and Bs to match the 18mm 1/2As and As.

Going down from the 29mm E16s to Ds and even Cs in that casing too, to keep hot rods like the Star Orbiter under control.

Sparky propellants in lower impulse classes, E for example. We may see slightly more L1s if that ever happens.

Adjustments to existing motor types. I’ve often wished for the C11s to come with -2, -4, and -6 second delay times to better match the D12’s lifting capacity.

Not sure how practical or economical all of these are.

  • A whole new motor size intermediate between Micro Maxx and 13×45 mm, so maybe 10×35 mm. A quick, crude calculation suggests 1/2A BP motors could be made at that size.
Apogee had a line of 10.5mm motors in four lengths back in the 90s, ranging from 1/4A2 to B2. They’re long OOP.
 

dr wogz

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How about a motor, that is layered (either in thrust or in coast / tracking phase) where the smoke changes colours.. it starts out thick & white, then transitions to thick & yellow (or blue or pink or..) then transitions to... So you can get a 200' smoked trail in 2 or 3 (or 6!! different colours..)

Could also be used to help gauge altitude!

Teflon lined motor cases, so you dont' need to grease them prior, and they clean up nicely post flight!
 

LithosphereRocketry

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How about a motor, that is layered (either in thrust or in coast / tracking phase) where the smoke changes colours.. it starts out thick & white, then transitions to thick & yellow (or blue or pink or..) then transitions to... So you can get a 200' smoked trail in 2 or 3 (or 6!! different colours..)

Could also be used to help gauge altitude!

Teflon lined motor cases, so you dont' need to grease them prior, and they clean up nicely post flight!
I think Loki Cocktail motors do this a little bit - they're half fast blue grains and half slow red grains, so they gradually fade blue to purple to red. I don't know how easy it is to see in the air though.
 

NateB

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A no thrust (or trivial thrust) all tracking smoke "motor" for effects. Maybe even with colored smoke options.

Are delay grains subject to the same rules and formula requirements as propellant for TRA research launches?

Pressed colored smoke is easy, but really messy. I've been needing an excuse to open a package of phthalocyanine blue powder, but don't want to make my backyard turn blue if it can't be used.
 

cerving

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Cox used to sell a "smoke only" motor, so I assume that NAR approval is not an issue. It would be cool to light it right before your drogue charge, so you have a smoke trail coming down.
 

SolarYellow

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I’ve got a few hot rods that go pretty high on their smallest recommended motors. My Goblin will only stay under DART’s 1000ft ceiling on C11s, so sometimes I wish that there were 24mm As and Bs to match the 18mm 1/2As and As.

Going down from the 29mm E16s to Ds and even Cs in that casing too, to keep hot rods like the Star Orbiter under control.
It's pretty easy to build an adaptor from parts most of us probably have lying around, if we don't feel like paying Estes money for their molded plastic ones.

I've noticed in some of my sims that a C6-7 gives a higher apogee than a C11-7. I assume because it's lighter, as well as being a slower burn. And it's cheaper and easier to buy at Hobby Lobby, so...
 

jqavins

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Would these "no-thrust" effect motors need to be certified by NAR / Tripoli/ etc ? (Assuming California Fire Marshall would need to approve for CA regardless.)

If you "made it yourself" would you need to be TRA L2, and use at TRA launch only as Research "motor"?
I've brought this one up before, and it seems that the answer is yes, the only way to launch something burning that fits within the rules is for it to be considered an engine. I'd love to make my own without falling under Tripoli research rules, but it seems that's not in the cards.
 

n3tjm

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Personally I don't like the NO BP motors rule, firework people have been safely pressing black power motors for centuries.
That being said... I have occasionally experimented with black powder "C20" and made some "C5" sparky motor.
 

NateB

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Personally I don't like the NO BP motors rule, firework people have been safely pressing black power motors for centuries.
That being said... I have occasionally experimented with black powder "C20" and made some "C5" sparky motor.

I agree completely. Legal transportation is a complications that is easily overcome. I can also drag my press or a mallet to a site, make the BP fuel in the morning and fly rockets by afternoon and be completely legal.
 

shockie

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I would like to see a reusable BP motor.

The current BP propellant slug could still be pressed by a Mabel into a smaller diameter paper casing, that the end user inserts into a CFRP casing that has a screw-in nozzle on one end with a screw-in delay train/ejection charge on the other end, where the delay train is made from a slow composite fuel that a person could drill to determine the delay they want.

So the propellant would be BP but the delay train would be composite. The ejection charge of course would remain BP.

With the CFRP casing being able to hold higher chamber pressures, the Isp would be improved.

With a screw-in nozzle, it would be able to hold higher chamber pressures than a pressed clay nozzle mechanically bonded to the paper casing.
 
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Hoo boy this is dangerous. So much good stuff out there already.

But if pressed, I’d say expanding options up and down in existing casing sizes would be a good start.

I’ve got a few hot rods that go pretty high on their smallest recommended motors. My Goblin will only stay under DART’s 1000ft ceiling on C11s, so sometimes I wish that there were 24mm As and Bs to match the 18mm 1/2As and As.

Going down from the 29mm E16s to Ds and even Cs in that casing too, to keep hot rods like the Star Orbiter under control.

Sparky propellants in lower impulse classes, E for example. We may see slightly more L1s if that ever happens.

Adjustments to existing motor types. I’ve often wished for the C11s to come with -2, -4, and -6 second delay times to better match the D12’s lifting capacity.

Not sure how practical or economical all of these are.


Apogee had a line of 10.5mm motors in four lengths back in the 90s, ranging from 1/4A2 to B2. They’re long OOP.
Sparkies in smaller form factors would still be considered Class 1 (High Power) motors regardless of impulse (G75M and G72DM, for example). They could only be launched at NAR and Tripoli run launches.
 

mh9162013

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At least one useful engine (A8-3, B6-4, C6-5, C5-3, D12-5, etc.) from each manufacturer that's free. Maybe limit 3 per month per customer. Shipping is free, too.

I mean, if we're gonna fantasize, might as well go all out, right?
 

techrat

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I know they are making motor with color during the thrust phase (the reds are the ones most apparent to me), but what if they layered in the metal additives that produce those colors and you have a motor that makes a rainbow during the thrust phase? Or at least changes colors while going up? Seems to me that they can now make fireworks that do almost anything, heck I want an ejection charge that makes a smiley face in the sky!
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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I’d like a low-thrust, very smokey motor too. Something to cluster with the main thrust motor or to use in outboard pods that would not be as likely to cause imbalanced thrust.
 

dhbarr

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I've brought this one up before, and it seems that the answer is yes, the only way to launch something burning that fits within the rules is for it to be considered an engine. I'd love to make my own without falling under Tripoli research rules, but it seems that's not in the cards.
The d2.3 suggests someone could probably get a tracker certed as, e.g., an f4.1. Good to augment NAR HP certs, too.
 

n3tjm

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During the days when the smallest Skidmarks was AMW's 38mm I loads, I decided to develop my own G sparky motors




 
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