F21-W motors

[sandmantoy]

Hey
Does anybody know what is going on with the dissapearance of this motor? I hope they are not going to be discontiued!

 

[cjl]

They have been discontinued.

May I suggest the F24W as an excellent alternative though? Equal impulse, less expensive, and fits in a D mount instead of an E mount...

 

[dwmzmm]

https://www.launchpad2000.com/

Click Model Rocket Engines, then click "D" sized (24 mm) Rocket
Engines and scroll down... I've bought the E30's from this vendor
in the past.

 

[Donaldsrockets]

Last I heard, they were on production hold due to the lack of good quality casing material.

Gary from AT once mentioned production of a 24mm E sized RMS casing and reloads. Hopefully one day it will become reality.

 

[shreadvector]

Certainly. Aerotech knows and has provided the following news release to tell us about it.

https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/customersite/news_archives.html

you can still find dozens of packages on the peg at some hobby retailers. What's Up Hobbies had a LOT of them.

Originally posted by sandmantoy
Hey
Does anybody know what is going on with the dissapearance of this motor? I hope they are not going to be discontiued!

 

[sandmantoy]

Thanks, shreadvector LOL! I thought I looked on there site before posting too. I just didn't see that. I hope they keep the old disign. I never have had a problem with one of those motors and always had awsome flights.

The F21W was the first rocket motor that I used that was not made in a card board tube with a clay nozzle. What a screamer in a 14oz. rocket.

I hope they dont use the design like the single use G80's. I have only used that design motor 3 times and 2 were cato's. I am not condeming that design, I just haven't had much luck with it. Maybe they were old stock and not stored well. I also wondered if the igniter wire bunched up at the nozzle as it was being expelled during ignition causeing an over pressure event.

The G80 is also the only other single use composite motor I have used. The one that did work was a very nice punch skyward. Anyway the F21W is a simple sweet designed motor, I hope they find the materials to put it back in production in it's current design.

 

[shreadvector]

The problem with the casing on sporadic 29mm single use motors has been identified and solved. All motors made since the week before NARAM (decode the date code) are flawless. Especially the Redlines.

 

[sandmantoy]

Excellent! I haven't tryed a redline yet

 

[cjl]

As I said, why not just get a 24/40 case, and fly F24W motors for a lot cheaper than the F21's?
They only cost ~$20 or less for a 3 pack (compared to ~$30 for a 2 pack of F21's).

 

[sandmantoy]

I indeed intend to try that out. RMS is the way to go but we all have our habits LOL! I have more than a few times this summer got my son out of bed early grabbed the rocket gear and off to the field for a perfect sunrise launch. Single use motor fits the bill.
It's one thing less to do and gives more time for attention to my coffee that early LOL! Plus low light no tools, rags or range box. Just as the stars are fadeing there is an awsome roar fantastic light show, no wind and a nice morning walk to recover the rocket. My son loves it he now gets the gear and himself ready before I do. With kids timing is everything he even ask's me if I have the motor before we get out of the driveway.

I have a 4" Horizon that uses 38mm motors but the F21W has been a habit for awhile in my modified launchpad Alarm, big easy to find (so far) and looks awsome flying into the sunlight.

 

[cjl]

Easy solution to that: prep the motor the night before

 

[shreadvector]

I've got all 3 hobby casings. The time it takes to prep the motor is annoying. The grease is a mess. Then you must clean up the casing (more mess) and reload (more grease). I could fly 5 single use motors in the time I process one RMS.

As for prep the night before, that only works for the first reload in each casing.

It will work for the LMS. The intent is to assemble the motors at home, not on the field.

Advantages of RMS: MANY motor choices (different average thrust, effects, delay adjustability (also possible on LMS), etc.)

Should I mention losing the RMS casing?

Originally posted by cjl
Easy solution to that: prep the motor the night before

 

[doug_man_sams]

Originally posted by shreadvector
As for prep the night before, that only works for the first reload in each casing.

I plan most of my flying around using each case only once. Sometimes I'll clean and reuse at the field, but as stated, that cuts into flying time.

Plus, flying lots of BP, having a extra 24/40 case and an extra set of closures for my 38's lets me get in plenty of flying before needing to clean something.

Doug

 

[sandmantoy]

While not a good practice, I would load a motor the night before but then It's a planned event.

Sometimes conditions at the field are not good like to much ground fog or the wind has picked up. So you can see a single use motor has it's place, I just leave it in the box for next time.

I also haven't used an RMS smaller than 38MM. I guess I will soon since my favorite motor has become discontinued.

 

[hokkyokusei]

Originally posted by sandmantoy
While not a good practice, I would load a motor the night before but then It's a planned event.

Sometimes conditions at the field are not good like to much ground fog or the wind has picked up. So you can see a single use motor has it's place, I just leave it in the box for next time.

You can't do that with an RMS? Someone should have told me! I just flew a 24/40 RMS that I loaded a year ago. Luckily, I had written on the side what it was.

 

[timb]

Originally posted by shreadvector
The problem with the casing on sporadic 29mm single use motors has been identified and solved. All motors made since the week before NARAM (decode the date code) are flawless. Especially the Redlines.

Do you have a link or a quick reference for decoding the date code? Thanks!

 

[cjl]

Originally posted by shreadvector
I've got all 3 hobby casings. The time it takes to prep the motor is annoying. The grease is a mess. Then you must clean up the casing (more mess) and reload (more grease). I could fly 5 single use motors in the time I process one RMS.

As for prep the night before, that only works for the first reload in each casing.

It will work for the LMS. The intent is to assemble the motors at home, not on the field.

Advantages of RMS: MANY motor choices (different average thrust, effects, delay adjustability (also possible on LMS), etc.)

Should I mention losing the RMS casing?

Really?

I've gotten prepping RMS down pretty quick, and I vastly prefer them over SU because of cost (and I actually enjoy building the motor). I can build the hobby line ones in ~5min, and clean them in about the same amount of time.

I usually spend more time looking for the rocket than I do prepping the reload case

 

[zog43editor]

Originally posted by hokkyokusei
You can't do that with an RMS? Someone should have told me! I just flew a 24/40 RMS that I loaded a year ago. Luckily, I had written on the side what it was.

No, you can load them before you fly them just fine. I usually do that and save puting the ejection charge in at the field, just before flight. If you don't happen to use a motor (and haven't put the ejection charge in yet) just back off the closures a bit to relevie the o-rings. To fly it x-number of days later, retighten the closures and add the ehection charge.

kj

 

[shreadvector]

YMDDMY

002776 = July 27, 2006

I bought this G77-4R on July 29, 2006 (along with 3 other G77 motors)

Originally posted by timb
Do you have a link or a quick reference for decoding the date code? Thanks!

 

[sandmantoy]

Yeah 5 or 10 minutes putting the RMS together, I guess I am paying for the convenience of the SU motor. But I like it, plus the F21 was like a nice little renigade motor. The only one like it and a performer too.

I also wanted to know what that date was. I bought both of these G80 motors at NERRF but at different times and can't seem to find both recepts. The motors that catoed are both #010405. That would be Oct.04 2005? The one that fired was #000265 Jun. 02 2005 if that is right.

 

[by basher]

Originally posted by hokkyokusei
You can't do that with an RMS? Someone should have told me! I just flew a 24/40 RMS that I loaded a year ago. Luckily, I had written on the side what it was.

It is good that SU's are marked. I flew what I thought was an F24-4 I had loaded months ago in my 2.6" Patriot. The 'chutes deployed on the second bounce after an abbreviated E18 flight with a TEN SECOND DELAY!! AAAGGGHH!

 

[Beanboy]

Used a F21-8 in a Stormcaster. Great combo.

 

[metalwizard]

O.K. guys here it is.....

the f21's will be coming back, but ot sure when exactly (the designation may change slightly)


RMS can be loaded beforehand, but remember it can effect the legnth of your delay to let them sit for a long time (thats why youll notice some delays are in there own sealed package) some chemicals used in thegrains can "migrate" into the delay and make it burn faster... but this takes some time... weeks... months maybe more.

and lastly freds right, any g80 made after july is gonna be fine... as a matter of fact since i took over the single use dept, I've seen only one SU motor come back for failure, and that one im sure was dropped... so happy single use and LMS flying!!

 

[sandmantoy]

That is good news! the F21's coming back, I hope it is the same size as the old model. They look so awsome on the buisness end of a rocket LOL!

My daughter had some friends over and they were all talking about the rockets they where building at school so I took them to the garage and showed them some of the bigger rockets and let them examine a spent F21 and a spent G80. I have since made a small display out of them along with a few other size motors for my daughter to take to school. Her teacher was so excited he had to email me and let me know. I think it made a better display than trying to show some of the differences in relaodable motors for beginers.

Hey I have a stormcaster I am building to fly on the F21 it is a little experiment useing dual deploy. Nice size rocket, I also have started working on a Executioner a very nice kit, I have upgraded the center rings with some lite plywood rings, Nylon chute and Kevlar shock cord

 

[Beanboy]

Hope the "new" F21 burns as long or longer than the "old" one. Anything I have with a 24mm mount is lightweight/Estes style build, so an F is the top motor I would use.

Being so light, less ooomph would mean the rocket stays in sight just a little longer, hehe.

 

[sandmantoy]

The F21 is my favorite. Awsome to see the trail arc over to apogee on a nice blue sky flight way up there. Quite a punch takeing off with a lite rocket too. My son already calls it a long walk flight